Group Vs Vector?

[ktk120]

Looking to buy a full size RR. Any real difference in quality and more importantly ease of resale is one better or worse? Anything to look out for on a Group or Vector?

 

[Battering ram NIB]

ive heard group is worse....others may say differently

i was told at one point in production they had a poor welder working for them. I think i have one of his guns as my back welds blew out at 2,000 rounds

ask 100 people and you might get 50/50 on the subject?

 

[Vegas SMG]

Buy a properly converted IMI and be supremely happy.

 

[hkg3k]

ive heard group is worse....others may say differently

i was told at one point in production they had a poor welder working for them. I think i have one of his guns as my back welds blew out at 2,000 rounds

ask 100 people and you might get 50/50 on the subject?

I've owned a GI Uzi for >25 years. In all that time, I've never heard the "poor welder" story. I'm curious...where did you hear this and what was the corroboration for the story?

I think we've all heard about welding issues with some Vector guns.

Are the GI guns perfect? No...they're known for having bad GI manufactured bolts with the boltface being improperly milled. My personal gun had that ailment when I first got it...I dropped an Izzy bolt in and the gun's been flawless since.

Maybe you did get a Monday gun or maybe it's another case of your incessant tinkering turning lemonade into lemons?

 

[Vegas SMG]

My Group converted IMI also had one of their crappy G marked bolts. Replaced it with an IMI surplus bolt and it’s been flawless ever since.

I’ve never heard of the poor GI welds either. My Vector built full size suffered broken trunnion welds in about the first 500 rounds, and back plate welds broke twice. Vector repaired it free of charge but the trunnion was welded in too far to the rear. Most people will never have an issue with their Vectors for as long as they own them, but there are a few problem guns out there.

 

[Battering ram NIB]

BWE told me when he had my gun at his shop.

he can verify if i have a poor memory or not. it was 1 comment about my gun he made.

it is always possible he made the comment towards the vector and im just old and cant remember anymore...the comment was close to 1.5 years ago. at the time i saw it as the explanation on why mine cracked.

 

[RoverDave]

Looking to buy a full size RR. Any real difference in quality and more importantly ease of resale is one better or worse? Anything to look out for on a Group or Vector?

The Group and Vector guns use the same receiver shells and used the same process to finish them so in that regard they're the same. Vector used surplus South African parts to finish the guns and those parts are high quality and in spec. Group made their own parts to complete the gun. Those parts were generally good but sometimes out of spec, particularly the bolts and extractors. If you get a Group gun with a goofy bolt it's easy enough to replace it with a surplus bolt and problem fixed.

Both guns suffer from the issues inherent in the out-of-spec receivers used and the warping caused by heat treatment of the receivers. Generally those issues were resolved as the guns were being built and they work fine, but sometimes it results in alignment issues that need to be fixed. I'd say there's an equal chance of running into that with a Group or a Vector. The most important thing to do when shopping for one is to test first it. If there are alignment issues you'll see failures to feed. If you can't test the gun yourself, as the seller to send video of the gun being fired - several mags, mag dumps and slow fire.

Between the two I'd take whichever I found the best deal on. A Vector will probably higher slightly higher resale value later on. I'd also take an IMI conversion gun before either of these.

 

[SecondAmend]

When I bought my Vector, the converted IMI guns were about 25% more expensive and I don't recall any Group guns being for sale at the time. I'm the second owner and the first owner said he only shot a few hundred rounds but did not have any problems. There was just the start of wear lines on inside of the receiver and on the bolt so I believe his "few hundred rounds". And as mine has worked great in 9mm, .45 ACP, and .22LR (once the height of the firing pin/extractor block was shimmed for proper clearance and good mags are used). I'd rather have a properly done IMI conversion, but I'm satisfied with the performance of the Vector.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to pursue.

MHO, YMMV, etc.

 

[pmf]

This is akin to the Shimano vs. Campagnolo arguments on bicycle web sites.

If I had the choice between a Vector and a correctly done IMI at the same price, I'd take the IMI. If prices differed, I'd take the cheapest gun.

I've had a Vector uzi for 15 years. All this time and it has never given me a single problem. I mostly shoot 9mm out of it, but I do have 22 and 45acp conversions.

 

[panhead5]

What is properly converted ? non slotted bolt trunnion and SMG barrel , no restrictor ring ? Just checking .

 

[rparsons3]

I've had a Vector for several years, owned two of them at one time, sold one of them, both worked very well, no welds cracked or whatever, both of them ate up any kind of ammo. I've got a registered bolt in transfer that maybe will be here in month or so. I am then going to list my Vector and some neat accessories ( complete 45 acp conversion kit that uses gg mags done by Chris Humphries, a Vector drum that came with the gun and a 22 vector kit with the metal mags from Vector ) The conversions mean nothing to me, have never even installed them, to me uzis are 9mm, so going with a bolt gun and IMI model B. Please don't ask, I will not sell the accessories separately unless I can sell the gun first and buyer doesn't want the accessories, I have already been lowballed on the 45 acp kit and the Vector drum. It has been said million times on here, most Vectors were OK, my two certainly were trouble free. I'm sure you know Uzi prices are down from their highs, have not decided what to ask for mine, won't be full dealer but won't be dirt cheap either, somewhere in between.

 

[RoverDave]

Please don't ask, I will not sell the accessories separately unless I can sell the gun first and buyer doesn't want the accessories,

I'm not looking to buy anything from you but just wanted to offer some advice. You almost always end up getting more money when you sell the accessories separately.

 

[RoverDave]

What is properly converted ? non slotted bolt trunnion and SMG barrel , no restrictor ring ? Just checking .

Bolt blocking bar removed so it uses an SMG bolt, barrel restrictor ring removed, barrel trunnion bored out to SMG size, sear holes opened to SMG size, SMG sear, grip frame retaining pin reduced to SMG size, replace grip frame with SMG grip frame so it has the proper markings. Once you do those things it's the same as a factory SMG and you can drop in any surplus parts. Any of it can be done after the fact as long as it's a registered receiver that originally had the blocking bar removed.

 

[rparsons3]

Thanks Dave, my local dealer told me the same thing, thought I might get lucky with the package for a price I can live with, I'm older guy and do not like selling on the internet, but now days we have to I guess.

 

[Vegas SMG]

I'm not looking to buy anything from you but just wanted to offer some advice. You almost always end up getting more money when you sell the accessories separately.

That’s certainly been my experience as well. I had a killer Vector Uzi package that was priced right. The buyer only wanted the gun and one mag. While it was a little more work to sell all the accessories seperatly, he did me a huge favor. I did very well on the accessories.

Rparsons3; I’ll bet I can guess who tried to low ball you on the prices. He thinks he knows the price of everything, but understands the value of nothing.

 

[rparsons3]

I have always looked for bargains on NFA guns and accessories, have never bought from a dealer, fair is fair, but I don't get obscene with my offers, it is all part of the hobby to me. I just try to educate myself before I either buy or sell. for the original poster, I see that a vector is marked sold on sturm and had an asking price of 12,000 maybe this is the going rate for one from an individual.

 

[arch stanton]

Hmmmmmmmmm

 

[cjsoccer3]

I heard of a some Vectors were hitting $9.5k recently. A LNIB sat at a $11k asking for months. Not sure what it ultimately went for. That was pre-tenko.

 

[MGMAN45]

That’s certainly been my experience as well. I had a killer Vector Uzi package that was priced right. The buyer only wanted the gun and one mag. While it was a little more work to sell all the accessories seperatly, he did me a huge favor. I did very well on the accessories.

Rparsons3; I’ll bet I can guess who tried to low ball you on the prices. He thinks he knows the price of everything, but understands the value of nothing.

LOL!

 

[rparsons3]

I heard of a some Vectors were hitting $9.5k recently. A LNIB sat at a $11k asking for months. Not sure what it ultimately went for. That was pre-tenko.

Where, I would like to see a vector listed for less than 10,000, not saying it ain't happening but I can't find any.