Where to get Stripped M10/45 bolt? Want to make it slow fire

[ktk120]

Where to get M10/45 bolt? Want to make it slow fire

Since its pretty clear that Vegas is not making a slow fire bolt in 45 I am going to take matters into my own hands and try modify a bolt and replace with at least some tungsten. Does anybody have or where do I get a m10/45 bolt that i can drill/cut/mill on?

 

[komodoj]

https://www.ftfindustries.com/product/ET-M1045F5.html

 

[A&S Conversions]

https://www.ftfindustries.com/product/ET-M1045F5.html

I bought several of their M10 bolts when I bought my first M10. I think that the bolts are of good quality and a fair price. I also got a couple of 10" side cocker uppers.

Scott

 

[Vegas SMG]

I’m probably wrong, but a four and a half pound W bolt transferring it’s energy to the rear welds of your M-10 with every round fired doesn’t seem like a good idea.

IMHO, Without the extended rear like that found on the M-11/9 bolt which lends itself to add weight, it seems like a lot of milling, drilling, and securing weights for minimal ROF reduction on the M-10 bolt.
Best of luck with your project.

 

[ktk120]

I’m probably wrong, but a four and a half pound W bolt transferring it’s energy to the rear welds of your M-10 with every round fired doesn’t seem like a good idea.

IMHO, Without the extended rear like that found on the M-11/9 bolt which lends itself to add weight, it seems like a lot of milling, drilling, and securing weights for minimal ROF reduction on the M-10 bolt.
Best of luck with your project.

you made one but arent gonna sell them right? Did you have problems with the welds?

 

[Gaujo]

you made one but arent gonna sell them right? Did you have problems with the welds?

Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[CapnMorgan]

I have an idea for slow fire in macs. You ever take a cassette player apart? the gear that slows the door during eject. Why cant we put a rack and pinion? place the rack in the upper and the gear with dampener in the bolt. The dampener could only dampen or absorb at the rearward portion of the bolt stroke. I know it's possible because I have my steering stabilizer set up to only dampen a few degrees off center, so it only works when im going straight and doesn't add force when turning, then it dampens again a few degrees before lock so a rock or stump doesn't jerk the bars out of my hand.

but we only need to slow the bolt a little as it reaches the apex of it's rearward travel, preventing it from bouncing off the buffer as hard. So if the dampener catches at about 1/4" before the bolt hits the buffer and continues to dampen until the bolt pushes 1/4" from the buffer it will slow the rate of fire. The force of dampening would determine how much.

 

[CapnMorgan]

or instead of using a rack and pinion that's going to fail when it gets fouled, maybe it can be incorporated into the guide rod?

 

[root]

Any amount of weight added to the bolt will slow it down.

How much slower is the question.

If the bolt had the rear milled off and replaced with tungsten it will bring the ROF down.

Again how much is something for the physics class or plain ole trail and error.

Would it be as slow as the CF-W ? NO! but it will bring it down from the OEM setup.

Same as the LAGE bolts longer travel and longer/heavier bolt to make it slower
Rich

 

[Doobis]

You might could use the roller delay like what was in the other thread recently.
http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?91524-Mac-roller-delay/page2
Maybe combine that with drilling a few holes and filling them with zink or lead or something. I dont know if that would be all that "healthy" for the bolt. May eventually crack the more holes you put in it.

 

[Kramer]

you made one but are not gonna sell them right? Did you have problems with the welds?

Well you could buy his bolt for $1200 or get a Lage slow fire upper for $900 and have $300 for reloading components or ammo.

 

[ktk120]

My issue is my son cannot and does not want to shoot it with the grey ghost. I’m not trying to get it to 600rpm but maybe if I can get it to 850rpm replacing about 1.5” area behind the bolt face. I would love to make the grey ghost a little more controllable. The lage slow fire is too big too heavy and really jack hammers in 45. I just don’t care for it

 

[root]

I just have the OEM upper and my PS 45 gun shoots pretty smooth to me fast but smoth.

The lage 10/31 is so slow i can load a drum while dumping a drum. But it to shoots pretty smooth.

I don't personally know you or your son or his age but maybe it's just to much gun for him at his age.

No disrespect meant.

Rich

 

[CoffeeFreak]

A lot of old-timers here still, a lot of new guys. Some of you may not know who I am. There is a reason why I stopped development on the 45 bolt and Vegas stated it. Yeah, it's slow but it's not fun to shoot. The stroke is shorter than the M11/9. The 4.5LB impact on the rear beats the gun and that leaves a question of liability on the manufacturer. There is also the question of product saturation point, cost to value. I made nothing on the CF-W bolts. I never did it as a business because I knew it would be a small niche market that would reach a saturation point in a couple of years. It would be a one-trick pony. I did it for the knowledge and the challenge. Vegas and I discussed this and yet he was still willing to market the product. He did an awesome job and now the product has reached a saturation point. You guys really do owe him a debt of gratitude because he took a gamble with a small fortune with every batch of bolts he made for such a little profit. There were so many what-ifs it was crazy. Richard Lage's business model is the safest. Make the product a few at a time and leave yourself at a smaller risk for the what-ifs, but honestly knowing the saturation points and niche market of his products how he can make a living at it I have no idea. The tungsten bolts just can't be made like that. I just stated that because you guys owe Richard a lot too. There is a way to make the 45 bolt work. You playing with trying to make an OEM bolt heavy enough will fail. You just won't be able to add enough weight. When I walked away from the bolt development I removed a lot of my research from the forum to protect Vegas. I didn't want someone using that to make bolts in China and undercut his investment. The company I work for now won't let me work on private weapons development and doesn't even like me discussing it publicly and I will even take some heat from this comment. Everything I post is watched. I have an NDA that doesn't expire for 5 years from the time I leave. There was a way to buffer that bolt in that research and someday may be able to share that. It's awesome you guys are still into my bolts and that makes me happy. I'll check in from time to time. Have a great day, hopefully out at the range.

 

[Walksalone]

I have a cfw bolt that I enjoy. I have a speed cube I love. To me a slow fire machine gun is an oxymoron. I had a machinist make a taller charging knob. He didn’t harden it and the force stretched and bent the stem. It would bind causing all types of failures. That might be a place to create some type of drag slowing down the rate of fire. Find a strong spring, hook it thru the sight hole for a simple test to see if it is even a place to start or laugh it off and be glad it didn’t cost a lot of time and money to try.

 

[rybread]

I will even take some heat from this comment.

“Nah, I don't think so. More like chewed out. You’ve been chewed out before.”

In all seriousness you guys have done a great service to MAC owners everywhere, if they are aware of it or not!

 

[A&S Conversions]

My understanding is that there are a couple reliable ways to slow cyclic rate. Increase the mass of the bolt group with a blow back system, a mechanical mechanism that diverts some of the recoil energy from the bolt group into the receiver before opening such that the mechanism will still function, and a locked bolt that uses some of the high pressure gas to to unlock the mechanism again diverting energy into the receiver.

I don't know of no manufacturer that has used friction as a means to slow cyclic rate. Friction causes wear. As the the parts that rub wear, the friction is reduced. So the cyclic rate would increase. It would be extremely difficult to have a friction retardant system that would be consistent. Good luck with the project.

Scott

 

[Fishman]

a mechanical mechanism that diverts some of the recoil energy from the bolt group into the receiver before opening such that the mechanism will still function

what are you talking about? Do you have a example of this?

(Also, "mechanical mechanism" is redundant lol)

 

[rybread]

what are you talking about? Do you have a example of this?

(Also, "mechanical mechanism" is redundant lol)

Hk roller delay may be applicable? My detent slow fire does work exactly this way- when the bolt is near the rear, the detents go over some holes to slow it down.

 

[Walksalone]

Could you get rubber weather stripping with adhesive. Stick it on top. Cut a slit and the charging knob be slowed down by drag on the rubber? Btw I don’t care. I’m Donald Duck and I don’t give a quack. If it don’t rain I’ll walk.