Gauging interest in an adjustable bolt

[Gaffshot]

I am interested to see it and see function/price. As I already have a CFW bolt I will probably not buy one right now.

 

[Heavy Gear]

Very Interested and would probably buy several.

 

[gorillastomp]

We are working on the prototype now I will keep you updated. It will be a few weeks but I will get some videos out.

 

[nklf]

I would buy one if it was available. Depending on price I might buy a couple of them. I have all three generations of the CFW tungsten bolt, but if something new came out I would grab it while it was available. I talked to Tom at length trying to figure out the M10 tungsten bolt and how to make it work. I even tried to buy one of his beta units to see if I could tweak it to run in my gun.

 

[Slowmo]

I’d be interested, particularly for the M10. If it were slowed down just a little bit, the Fat Ghost would actually be a very useful setup in my eyes.

 

[GunsCarsPlanes]

Yeah I'd be interested.

Bolt and compatibility for AR uppers is where I'm hoping things go.

 

[CoffeeFreak]

Certainly, I wish you luck with that. Here is the tough part, could you fund enough to make several hundred? I would think that based on my familiarity with the tungsten bolt, you wouldn't really need a patent to protect your intellectual property. Once the initial saturation of the market, maybe 5-600 M11 bolts, you would be looking at one or two bolts per month of sales.

It would seem to me that a drop in replacement bolt with a range of ROF between 600- 1,600 RPM, that could be adjusted at the range would have a market value of $1,500+. I get that $1,500 is double what the CF(W) bolts sold for, but the current market value of the bolts would prove otherwise. If you start slow at 10, 20, or even 50 bolts per month, someone else could copy the idea and flood the market. A patent is only as good as the lawyer you can hire to defend it.

Do you have an idea or a working prototype? Is the design ready to go into production? Do you have a ballpark of what your design will cost to produce and in what kind of quantity? Again, I sincerely wish you luck with the your idea. This is a small niche market.

Scott

This is actuality probably pretty accurate. Developing and making accessories for civilian NFA guns is definitely fun and interesting but as far as a long term business, initial investments can be a lot and it's a very niche market that tends to peter out fast once you quickly reach your saturation point. People have come and gone. Even Lage has had to transition. There is a little money to be made, but if it's a business plan, I would take more of an approach like HB Industries, A3 Tactical etc, and work on unique accessories for more mainstream firearms and military/police contracts with a larger market.

 

[prdubi]

yes, interested.

 

[gorillastomp]

• Upper and lower rate?
• Cost?

we are planning 1800 rpm upper rate to 400 rpm lower. Cost is still being kicked around. I am pushing for $900 to $1200 but will now more at a later time.

 

[gorillastomp]

This is actuality probably pretty accurate. Developing and making accessories for civilian NFA guns is definitely fun and interesting but as far as a long term business, initial investments can be a lot and it's a very niche market that tends to peter out fast once you quickly reach your saturation point. People have come and gone. Even Lage has had to transition. There is a little money to be made, but if it's a business plan, I would take more of an approach like HB Industries, A3 Tactical etc, and work on unique accessories for more mainstream firearms and military/police contracts with a larger market.

I agree this is a project of passion. Of course money is always good! The crazy thing about this is no heavy bolts. A tungsten bolt for the Mac10 is 5 lbs. that is just crazy heavy. Form all our models weight is not part of the reduction of speed. There should be a working test bolt in a few weeks. I will post videos of it in action.

 

[strobro32]

Let my know if you need a beta tester for the M11/380.

 

[Gaujo]

we are planning 1800 rpm upper rate to 400 rpm lower. Cost is still being kicked around. I am pushing for $900 to $1200 but will now more at a later time.

That's a huge range and something I don't think has been done before. Your pricing is reasonable in my opinion.

 

[woodenword]

I might be interested if the deal I’m working on for an M10 pans out.

 

[mwarnick1]

I’m looking forward to seeing the rate reduction tech and if it’s similar to an existing design. The prior designs within other subguns never seemed to catch on.

 

[SecondAmend]

 

[Offmarksman]

Dang! That’s over 3 1/2 lbs!!!

 

[A&S Conversions]

Dang! That’s over 3 1/2 lbs!!!

When it should be 2 1/2 lbs.

Scott

 

[skoda]

Demand will largely be a function of price for any accessory. Also, figure about half of MAC owners just have them to have them and never shoot them and half will actually shoot them once in a while and they MIGHT be interested in your bolt system. Another factor is how well it actually works period, how well it works in guns that weren't made to the tightest tolerances, how reliable it works over time, does it beat on the now ~$10,000 lower receiver through the sear pin or the back plate, how well is it made in that will it last more than 20 mags worth of shooting. These are all questions any serious buyer will think about before laying down a bunch of cash.

As for your cost of manufacture, this is a real specialty niche market product. You likely are not going to be making more than a couple thousands of them. I would design it such that it can be made with little to no tooling to save you the upfront cost of manufacture. Leverage CNC machining, laser or water jet cutting of sheet metal, off the shelf parts like springs wherever possible. Make or have made 20 or so and see how well they sell. Take the response and cash from that and decide of you want to go forward. Just because an $800 CFW bolt now sells on GB for $1600 doesn't mean that you can sell yours for $1600. It's human nature to want something that isn't available and to pay silly amounts for it. If yours is a really good product it too will double as soon as you stop selling it (so save a couple dozen in to sell later!!).

Others will rightly differ with me on intellectual property but I wouldn't waste time or money on a patent. They cost thousands of dollars and as Scott from A&S said are only worth what you are will to spend on lawyers to fight sleazy guys that will just melt away before or after the court case leaving you with nothing for the effort. This is such a small market that if you have a decent product for a decent price and you get the word out quickly you will likely fulfill 80% of the total market before anyone can get their own out. Remember that Tom sat on the last of the CFW bolts for a time. It won't be worth the time, money, or immense aggravation to defend that last 20% of a small market.

Personally I'm looking forward to seeing what your cleaver mind has come up with. I love tinkering on guns and other things to make them better or just different.

 

[Haris1]

i am def in

 

[GWally]

Yes, I’m interested.