Frustrating M11A1 extractor/CFWa malfunction

[Rob1928]

All ideas welcome! This has frustrated me a bunch over the last few days!

I've got 2 CFW-A bolts I usually use an a grey ghost and max31A, but decided the swap one into the stock M11A1 upper. I haven't done that for a few years but it used to work just fine.

Now, when the bolt drops the extractor will not slip over the case rim and instead just jams the case deeply into the chamber locking the gun up.

I've tried both CFW bolts, 2 barrels, 2 ejector rods, 2 guide rods, 3 types of ammo (does it on empty cases too). I've throughly degreased the bolts and extractors, cleaned the chambers, etc. The extractors move freely and I can easily snap a primerless dummy round onto either bolt face.

Could it be a barrel alignment issue? The upper works just fine with a 380 bolt/barrel but I know that bolt is very slightly smaller than the CFW ones (don't recall the exact #s). The CFW bolts work fine in other uppers.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Rob

 

[A&S Conversions]

What generation of "A" bolt do you have? The early A bolts were tight around the rim of the .380 cartridge. The higher spring tension of the 9mm would overcome this, but the .380 spring would not. I can't remember whether the early bolts had a smaller font "A" or a larger font "A". There is threaded about this from Vegas https://uzitalk.com/forums/index.php?threads/cf-w-9mm-a-bolt.86064/ about this issue. But there was a font change from a earlier A bolt that would only run 9mm from a M11A1 with a large magwell to the universal A bolt which would also run .380 in a M11 with the original smaller .380 magwell.

I wonder if you have the tighter bolt face A bolt, would that smaller bolt face make your bolt face to chamber alignment off? It sounds like you have tried a lot of things. Between the lighter .380 spring and a tight bolt face might be the issue if there is a slight misalignment. Just a thought.

Scott

 

[Rob1928]

Thanks Scott. I never noticed it before but on one bolt "9MM A" is written with the 2 Ms the same size as the numeral 9 and the capital A about 2/3 of that size. On the other bolt the 9 and the A are the same size but the 2 Ms are about 2/3 of that size.

Thanks for that link. I should have mentioned that I was trying to fire 9mm in the OEM upper rather than 380. I did a few searches before I posted but definitely have some reading to do.

Next thing I thought of to check is if I can measure and side to side difference between the barrel and inside of the upper at the chamber end.

PS: Just got back from the range and both bolts fires 9mm perfectly in a grey ghost, so if I can't figure this out I'll just leave the stock upper as a 380 and stop banging my head against the wall.

Rob

 

[HighriseATX]

Hey Rob, is this the original upper meant for .380? If so, it will not shoot 9mm successfully unless you replace the .380 barrel with a 9mm barrel. And only shoot 9mm in that config with a cf-w bolt.

 

[Rob1928]

Yep, original upper that I swapped a couple difference 9mm barrels onto. I shot is a bunch with a CF-W bolt a few years back with no issue.

 

[MACsAlot]

It sounds like a barrel to boltface misaligment. The boltface on all of the CF-W9mmA bolts were off from the OEM bolts. Even though this issue was addressed from one generation to the next, even the last generation was still off. We fixed this with our protype PS-W bolt. To prove it's misaligned, you need to take a flashlight and shine it against the extractor/ejection port side of the bolt and look down the business end of the barrel as you slowly lower the upper onto the bolt if it's misaligned, you'll be able to see that the chamber end of the barrel is off center from the boltface. All of the Ghost uppers were set up using a CF-W bolt and this why you don't have the issue with the Ghost upper, but do have it with the OEM style upper. If you need help and/or want us to fix this for you, give Sam a call at: 410-404-0320. Best of luck.

t

 

[Rob1928]

Thanks! I did just what you said and can see it is misaligned vertically. I'll live with it and keep shooting my oem upper as a 380 and CF-Ws in others. I really really appreciate the wealth of experience and knowledge here.

PS, took the ghost out this evening with a CF-W bolt and had another great time.

 

[mwarnick1]

Nice seeing a post from you Rob. I was thinking about you when I was down south on the bike this summer. If you’re ever up this way make sure to hit me up

 

[Rob1928]

Good to hear from you too Matt. I still haven't made it back there despite a few plans but will let you know when I do.

Aside from being a priceless source of information and parts, I really appreciated that Practical Solutions included a pocket copy of the constitution with my last order. Sam and Jackie are in my contact list.

Last week I picked up some spares at the post office on the way to shoot where I had an odd jam that required disassembly. I then discovered my "paper clip" section from the guide rod was missing, so told my son to find something with a staple in the glove box that I could use as a temporary replacement. After I reassembled it he said, "Dad, I should have pulled one out of that constitution! Then you could say you repaired a SMG with a copy of the US Constitution, you couldn't get more American than that!" An opportunity missed, lol.

 

[A&S Conversions]

BTW, Jackie is Richard Lage's daughter who works for him in the office. Tina is Sam's very long term girlfriend who works and lives with him.

Scott

 

[LawBob]

Didn’t they say not to use it in a max31?

 

[MACsAlot]

BTW, Jackie is Richard Lage's daughter who works for him in the office. Tina is Sam's very long term girlfriend who works and lives with him.

Scott

It doesn't matter, but Sam and I are married - just celebrated our 15th anniversary, last month. When we married, I kept my maiden name.

t

 

[MACsAlot]

Good to hear from you too Matt. I still haven't made it back there despite a few plans but will let you know when I do.

Aside from being a priceless source of information and parts, I really appreciated that Practical Solutions included a pocket copy of the constitution with my last order. Sam and Jackie are in my contact list.

Last week I picked up some spares at the post office on the way to shoot where I had an odd jam that required disassembly. I then discovered my "paper clip" section from the guide rod was missing, so told my son to find something with a staple in the glove box that I could use as a temporary replacement. After I reassembled it he said, "Dad, I should have pulled one out of that constitution! Then you could say you repaired a SMG with a copy of the US Constitution, you couldn't get more American than that!" An opportunity missed, lol.

That would have been very cool to have fix an MG with a constitution. If you decide you want us to fix the alignment on the other upper, just let us know.

t

 

[A&S Conversions]

Congratulations, Tina! I wish you and Sam many more happy years together.

Scott

 

[Deerhurst]

It doesn't matter, but Sam and I are married - just celebrated our 15th anniversary, last month. When we married, I kept my maiden name.

t

Did not realize who you are! It's really cool to slowly discover who is who on various forums. Sometimes it's not who you would ever suspect.

You, Sam and the Lage family do amazing things for us. Thank You.

The maiden name thing is pretty normal in my family. My mom still uses hers after some 40+ years. I'm so used to it I find it weird my girlfriend in no way wants to keep hers.

 

[sardo_67]

A bolt that would only run 9mm from a M11A1 with a large magwell to the universal A bolt which would also run .380 in a M11 with the original smaller .380 magwell.
Scott

I have an A1 with the larger mag well and I get free 9mm. Can I change the bolt and barrel in my stock upper and shoot 9?

 

[A&S Conversions]

I have an A1 with the larger mag well and I get free 9mm. Can I change the bolt and barrel in my stock upper and shoot 9?

I would certainly think so. Many here have done it using a tungsten "A" bolt and the stronger spring. The standard steel bolt does not have enough mass to hold the shell in the chamber during the high pressure phase, so a tungsten bolt must be used with 9mm Parabellem. It is my understanding that there are two different springs for the M11 length recoil rod for the tungsten "A" bolt. One is stronger for the additional energy of 9mm Parabellem round. The .380 version needs a weaker spring so it won't short stroke with the "A" bolt as the .380 has considerably less energy than 9mm. But finding a tungsten "A" bolt for sale is challenging. If you can find one it will be very expensive. There is a thread about Sam's attempts to put the tungsten bolt back into production, but there have been challenges.

Scott

 

[sardo_67]

I would certainly think so. Many here have done it using a tungsten "A" bolt and the stronger spring. The standard steel bolt does not have enough mass to hold the shell in the chamber during the high pressure phase, so a tungsten bolt must be used with 9mm Parabellem. It is my understanding that there are two different springs for the M11 length recoil rod for the tungsten "A" bolt. One is stronger for the additional energy of 9mm Parabellem round. The .380 version needs a weaker spring so it won't short stroke with the "A" bolt as the .380 has considerably less energy than 9mm. But finding a tungsten "A" bolt for sale is challenging. If you can find one it will be very expensive. There is a thread about Sam's attempts to put the tungsten bolt back into production, but there have been challenges.

Scott

Ohhhhh ok I see what you mean.

I’d only want do to it if I can run 9mm at 1800rpm but I’m guessing that’s not possible.

 

[Hey...]

I have an A1 with the larger mag well and I get free 9mm. Can I change the bolt and barrel in my stock upper and shoot 9?

Yes you can. A friend has one of his m11s set up with an A bolt.

It fires 9mm around I’d guess 1100rpm with the CFW -the bolt smacks the back of the receiver sharply and feels almost like shooting a stock m11/9.

my 11/9‘s cfw bolt never touches the back of the receiver and can be easily shot one handed with little muzzle rise even initially. smooth shooter.

 

[SecondAmend]

Ohhhhh ok I see what you mean.

I’d only want do to it if I can run 9mm at 1800rpm but I’m guessing that’s not possible.

Sure it is possible. You just get two setups and shoot them simultaneously as Chuck Norris did with two Micro Uzis in the film "Invasion U.S.A.".
Best of luck.
MHO, YMMV, etc. Be well.