Newby here with a couple of sionics questions.

[forindooruseonly]

Hello, I have been lurking here for a while but I need the expertise of those who have had a sionics suppressor converted to a wipeless style.

I finally got my paperwork back on my PS MAC-10 and suppressor. It still has the original wipes in it that need to be replaced and would like to have it converted. AWC did my dad's years ago. I called them and they seemed reasonable, but they don't change out the eyelets. Is that normal? Do they do as good a job as anyone else or should I look at some other places?

Also, what type of paperwork is needed to ship a suppressor for a job like that? Surely I can't just fedex it to them, right? This is my first NFA item and am still learning the ropes. Thanks for the help!

 

[LawBob]

Hello, I have been lurking here for a while but I need the expertise of those who have had a sionics suppressor converted to a wipeless style.

I finally got my paperwork back on my PS MAC-10 and suppressor. It still has the original wipes in it that need to be replaced and would like to have it converted. AWC did my dad's years ago. I called them and they seemed reasonable, but they don't change out the eyelets. Is that normal? Do they do as good a job as anyone else or should I look at some other places?

Also, what type of paperwork is needed to ship a suppressor for a job like that? Surely I can't just fedex it to them, right? This is my first NFA item and am still learning the ropes. Thanks for the help!

you can fedex usps or ups, just include your form 4 when you send it in.

I sent mine to Andy Blaschik in FLA and he replaced the eyelets with stainless mesh, and put simple baffles inside.

Call him, he did it in a week or two.

Andy Blaschik
KGB Armament, LLC FFL/SOT 02
Tactical Firearms Academy, Inc
954.274.6962
www.tacticalacademy.us


Read:
http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9983&highlight=baffles+sionics

Thompson Machine says they make a monocore baffle - monocore sionics is his handle on this board, but he has never replied to me.

http://www.thompsonmachine.net/

Brooks@ThompsonMachine.net

G-man of Tennessee (I don't remember, maybe KY) supposedly replaces with gem-tech baffles.

http://www.g-man-weaponry.com/

Richard
__________________
Richard
Master Gunsmith

BWE Firearms
Longwood, FL
(407) 592-3975
www.uzirepair.com

 

[104timberwolf]

Another vote for Andy Blaschik, he converted my suppressor. Great work and customer service!

I never got a return email (twice) from Thompson Machine.

 

[Shattered]

you can fedex usps or ups, just include your form 4 when you send it in.

OW!! Whoa there son... send a COPY of your Form 4. That original should never leave your safe, unless it's a trip to the local Kinkos or Staples for more copies.

And use red ink on it to write "copy for... (fill in the name of THAT dealer) only".

 

[BlackBelt]

AWC converted mine years ago, and didn't put anything where the eyelets were. Back then it cost something like $125 + shipping.

 

[tunnelrat]

Hello, I have been lurking here for a while but I need the expertise of those who have had a sionics suppressor converted to a wipeless style.

I finally got my paperwork back on my PS MAC-10 and suppressor. It still has the original wipes in it that need to be replaced and would like to have it converted. AWC did my dad's years ago. I called them and they seemed reasonable, but they don't change out the eyelets. Is that normal? Do they do as good a job as anyone else or should I look at some other places?

Also, what type of paperwork is needed to ship a suppressor for a job like that? Surely I can't just fedex it to them, right? This is my first NFA item and am still learning the ropes. Thanks for the help!

Hello, and welcome to Uzitalk! I had mine done by AWC quite a few years ago. (early '90's) Mine is the SWD model two stage that uses the newer conical baffles instead of the helical style typical of the earlier P.S. ones. They did not do anything with the first stage; only the second. They swapped out the aluminum conicals and end cap for stainless steel washers, an equal number of aluminum spacers (only one shown) and new end cap as shown:

They sent me the original internals and endcap back with my suppressor. Honestly this particular conversion did not improve the sound quality; in fact it ended up being slightly louder, so I went back to the original set up. I ended up buying some 1/4" neoprene and polyurethane sheet stock and making a bunch of replacement wipes - only cost about $15 - $20 and a lot less hassle :

I do want to emphasize that the technology has changed since I had this done, and that AWC (or anyone else, for that matter) may use a different baffle design as the replacement internals...personally I think the original design is just as quiet (if not more so) than the newer ones if you keep the wipes in good shape. Personally I would leave it alone (I don't shoot suppressed often) but if you plan on shooting suppressed a lot then it may be worth it...

 

[medphys]

Thompson Machine says they make a monocore baffle - monocore sionics is his handle on this board, but he has never replied to me.

http://www.thompsonmachine.net/

Brooks@ThompsonMachine.net

Richard is "panaceabeachbum"

Email Brooks, Richard, or call them. They do good work. I had them make a mono-core baffle for my suppressor and love it. $100 plus shipping.

Here is a link to the thread.
http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48040

 

[forindooruseonly]

Thanks for everyone's input, it has been most helpful.

I might make some wipes for the time being, just to gauge how much of a hassle it really is. I won't have the chance to shoot all that often, but I doubt I'll ever shoot it without the suppressor on it.

It seems Andy Blaschik is the man for the job if I do this. Lawbob and Timberwolf, how do your cans perform relative to the old wipes? Also, can you still disassemble the suppressor? AWC seals them up now, which kinda bugs me.

 

[gfunk]

thompsonmachine has been great in communicating w/ me. i bought one of their zephyr xl 22lr cans to use on my lage conversion that i hope to get soon.

 

[Jack007]

Tunnel:

I'm a little confused. How did they return your original internals? I was under the impression that the old parts had to be destroyed? I like the idea of having the option to "revert" to the classic design.

As far as performance...I can assure you that I have shot plenty of original SPIRAL & EYELET original MAC cans, and the AWC style upgrade to stainless baffles AND screen wire, is VASTLY superior. I have NOT shot one of the SWD conical baffle types in years, so I don't remember. Perhaps there was an edge?
I would try wrapping as much brass screen cloth as you can possibly get around the rear and still fit the tube over it. I'll bet you'll be amazed at the difference in overall performance. The key here is heat dissipation. The eyelets relied on surface area; the screen greatly multiplies that surface area as well as acting as a better heat sink.

I like the wipeless end cap (MAC END) and it works well. However, contrary to Doc Dater's claim to the contrary, I think a fresh urethane wipe has a slight edge. Once it starts to wear, the difference is negligible. For everyday blasting, I'd use the wipeless. For more "serious" situations, I'd use a FRESHLY wiped cap.

As far as the decision to start sealing the units...I don't like it either. In my past conversations with Len McWilliams, he told me that the biggest problem with these upgrades was baffle alignment. Both he and Dater said they used an alignment rod when packing a unit. End users would inevitably get lazy and be tempted to just drop the baffles in. After all, they drop in and rest so nicely on their own. They had quite a few returns with multiple baffle strikes. I suspect that they just got tired of it and started breaking out the Loctite.
I would put a torch to the threads and break them free if it was my can. I made a wooden dowel that I turned down just under the ID of the baffle hole and use it to align the baffles. Never had a strike.

NOTE: Most of the original SIONICS cans were not only thread locked, but also had the bushing STAKED. Care must be exercised in disassembly, or they will incur serious damage.

Jack007

 

[LawBob]

Probably PRE-ATF ruling...

 

[tunnelrat]

*

 

[tunnelrat]

Tunnel:

I'm a little confused. How did they return your original internals? I was under the impression that the old parts had to be destroyed? I like the idea of having the option to "revert" to the classic design. Jack007

Jack, I originally posted "early 90's"; in fact it was in 1989. Here's exactly how I went about having mine upgraded:

May 1989 - I inquired to AWC about having my suppressor upgraded.

June 12, 1989 - I received the Form 5 from AWC already filled out, with AWC as the transferee. Type of transfer is marked "for repair". I signed and dated the form, and forwarded it to BATF.

July 13, 1989 - I received the approved Form 5 from BATF.

August 22, 1989 - I send the suppressor with the original copy, and a USPS money order for $99.95 to AWC. I made a copy of the Form 5 for my records.

September 10th, 1989 - I received my rebuilt suppressor from AWC along with another Form 5 with myself listed as the transferee, type of transfer marked "return repair". A receipt for the work and another receipt for insured mail was also included, along with my original parts in a ziplock bag.

I guess back then a baffle wasn't considered a suppressor. I read in previous posts of folks sending copies of Form 4's...my Form 4 never came into play regarding my upgrade. I used a Form 5 for my rebuild...I actually had to transfer the unit to AWC. Did they change how one goes about sending a suppressor in for a rebuild, i.e. a transfer is no longer required?

As far as performance...I can assure you that I have shot plenty of original SPIRAL & EYELET original MAC cans, and the AWC style upgrade to stainless baffles AND screen wire, is VASTLY superior. I have NOT shot one of the SWD conical baffle types in years, so I don't remember. Perhaps there was an edge?
I would try wrapping as much brass screen cloth as you can possibly get around the rear and still fit the tube over it. I'll bet you'll be amazed at the difference in overall performance. The key here is heat dissipation. The eyelets relied on surface area; the screen greatly multiplies that surface area as well as acting as a better heat sink.Jack007

The newer SWD Cobray "H.E" suppressor is more quiet than the original Sionics style. While I can't quote decibles, I have heard mine with good wipes vs. the newer Gemtech and AWC, and honestly I can't tell any difference. I will take mine apart and replace the eyelets with the brass screen as you suggested. The heat dissipation does make a difference in the overall sound signature.

 

[D-boy]

If I had one, I'm sure I would do the same thing. So no name calling here.

I am kind of curious that nobody seems concerned about the historical value of these suppressors. I don't think that means nobody cares, I think it means I am missing something. Can somebody give me the low-down on why there is no point in preserving a Sionics?

 

[104timberwolf]

What Andy did with my can was to shorten the length of the endcap to accomodate two baffles and spacers in front of the encapsulator or whatever that thing is that holds the spiral baffles in place. He left the front wipe in place but expanded the hole so no bullet contact but it keeps the original look of the suppressor. It disassembles as it originally did. There is no difference that I can detect in noise increase or reduction. He did replace the eyelets but I have not disassembled it to take a look. He will replace the baffles @ a per baffle cost, don't remember what that was but I paid $90 for the work he did on mine in December 08.

 

[Jack007]

D Boy:
I really think any value in a SIONICS can is in the original tube with the snake.
There are so many out there that I don't think the spiral diffusers make it any more collectible. In a few years that may change, but I doubt if it will happen anytime soon.

The fun is shooting your MAC with an original looking can and some updated performance.

I am not impressed when I see an original PS with some new state of the art space age suppressor.
I'll save that for my Uzi!

Just my .02 worth.