PM-63C SBR Bummer

[TheNewPunisher]

As a collector of unique looking firearms both modern and vintage, I had an instant attraction to the Polish PM-63 SMG when I first saw one. I was even more excited when I saw that Pioneer Arms released the civilian semi-auto version PM-63C here in the states. I missed out on getting one last year, but was fortunate enough to get notified earlier this year that they had again become available and I quickly snatched one up. I figured that this would be an interesting candidate for an SBR, so I submitted my Form 1 and had to wait until it went through a researching cycle (since this model wasn’t listed on the ATF manufacturer’s model list) and finally received my approval. Initially, it seemed like a relatively easy SBR conversion. Replace the non-functional folding foregrip and dremel out the small spot weld that prevents the stock from being deployed. After about a half hour or so to carefully remove the weld with minimal damage, the stock released easily. The problem is that there is nothing to prevent you from completely removing the sliding stock when pulled out. Furthermore, Pioneer Arms have apparently changed the semi version lower receiver so that none of the stock latching/retaining features found on the SMG version are on the semi version. The SMG version has a small ‘rail’ at the rear of the receiver right above the stock and a small ‘nub’ at the lower rear to keep the stock straight when pulled back. On the semi version, once pulled back, not only can it pull right out, but it also rotates in the latch and does not lock up in any way. Also, the stock lock-release button is also absent from the bottom rear of the semi version. The opening for the button on the receiver isn’t there either. So… Now what!?! Maybe should have done a bit more research before SBRing this pistol. The stock was apparently just for show on this pistol with no thought of being actually used by the average buyer. It’s too bad. It probably would have made it a lot easier and user-friendly to fire. Just seems like there would have to be too much substantial work done to modify this model for reasonable stock usage. Just an FYI for anyone contemplating this.

 

[litfire145]

That is pretty disappointing. I thought of doing this as well.

 

[timkel]

How do you like the pistol otherwise? I've been looking at one too.

 

[root]

what is the registered part upper or lower?

I have two of these parts kits and the serial #'s are on the upper like a Ruger mkII or FAL

If that is the case with these a rewelded lower would be the way to go.

Lots of these are being built up from kits for the last 8 years or so, so the lower being rewelded to semi is only a matter of doing the semi stuff to it.
And probably a lot easier with pioneer's lower to clone now.

There is also this thread of a arf member doing a pretty indepth review.

Finally Picked Up a Polish PM63-C - AR15.COM

Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! Buy, Sell, and Trade your Firearms and Gear.

www.ar15.com

Been thinking of picking up a 63 myself since they are rather inexpensive compared to when classic 1st released them.
I picked up their PPS43-C WHEN CF had them in 7.62x25 for 399.99 to do beta testing on a semi FCG from member making them for building the kits.
It's a decent gun.
Hoping the 63-C is just as nice since RANDOM is only a name now and not the original RANDOM Co. of old.

Since you have the gun & the approval form I'd pick up a kit while they are still around and see what you need to do to finish off the conversion back to the collapsible stock.

I was disappointed to see in the other thread that it didn't come with all,the extras like holster,mags, and mag pouch that my kits came with.

Best of luck getting it finished.

 

[Deerhurst]

The part considered a firearm is the lower.

Sounds like it time to add some material with a welder and break out the Bridgeport!

The semi ones are different than the original design in a few ways besides how they function.

I have a few of those kits to weld back up and semi auto convert. I plan to SBR at least one of them.

 

[litfire145]

What is involved with making them semi auto?

 

[root]

What is involved with making them semi auto?

Typical parts kit build.
Convert to closed bolt, delete all FA features, striker or hammer fired, semi only conversion. Denials to make it non compatible with FA parts.
delete front grip or fix in the closed position.
Delete stock or fix in the closed position.

Semi FCG is the hardest on these as they are a very narrow frame and slide.

Some have stuffed the pps-43 FCG Made by freedom machine into them others have used a exposed transfer bar like a Nambu.
the freedom machine FCG is very nice & robust.
I did beta testing for him and it's been used in a ton of builds since he released it.
there is more to it that that's about the basics for a legal rebuild.

 

[TheNewPunisher]

I haven’t had an opportunity to fire this pistol yet, but I am still satisfied with having this semi version since it is probably the closest I will get to actually owning an original. I may pick up a parts kit just so I have some spare parts available regardless. I’m just bumming that I now have to contemplate cutting and welding a $900 firearm. It’s probably doable, but I would need to find someone competent to do the work. Anyone have a reputable source? My pistol came with a 15 rd. & 25 rd. mag, lock tie and cleaning kit (which was missing the bore brush). No holster or pouch, but those items are still available elsewhere online. That ARF review post was quite informative.

 

[Deerhurst]

I've spent more than that for non functional guns that I had to weld back together to make them work. Its not the end of the world. The hard part has been done making it work.

Any link to the ARF post?


Root, you do not need to lock out the stock and vertical grip when you build a parts kit as long as you make sure you get the stamp in the right order before proceeding to the step that would make it an SBR similar to the steps required to not make it a MG.


I'd have to see how the semi ones were done to fully evaluate how I would go about it.

 

[root]

Deerhurst I linked the article above.

I only mention the grip and stock mods as about 75% of the people building kits skip the stamp.

another thing I would have liked to see on the semi production guns was the barrel extended to at least give it the look of the original open bolt design.
When ever I get around to my kits I'll need to do that for a can anyways.

On a side note they are looking @new rules for kit imports.
Rumours being they want the trunnions, gas blocks, sights, and something else that slips the mind torched. ( possibly UK style bolt demil I think)
My suggestion is buy what you want to build down the road now since soon a,kit won't be much more then furniture and a few pins.

 

[Villafuego]

It appears that a good portion of the semi frame/receiver is aluminum, as opposed to the steel originals .....

Thats going to make adding the features required to use the original stock substantially more difficult depending on the alloy.

 

[TheNewPunisher]

Yep, I just found this out myself last night. As I was looking at the new semi modified part of the frame, you can see that it is essentially pinned into the existing lower part of the frame that they kept in. That basically throws out the idea of welding a parts kit rear piece back in. It’s starting to look like the better option would be to just keep the existing semi frame and add on some similar-looking rail guide pieces (JB Weld?) and cut out the latch release slot on the bottom and add the release button and spring.

 

[Deerhurst]

Deerhurst I linked the article above.

I only mention the grip and stock mods as about 75% of the people building kits skip the stamp.

another thing I would have liked to see on the semi production guns was the barrel extended to at least give it the look of the original open bolt design.
When ever I get around to my kits I'll need to do that for a can anyways.

On a side note they are looking @new rules for kit imports.
Rumours being they want the trunnions, gas blocks, sights, and something else that slips the mind torched. ( possibly UK style bolt demil I think)
My suggestion is buy what you want to build down the road now since soon a,kit won't be much more then furniture and a few pins.

Derp. Missed the link.

New kits are a shadow of what kits once were. Aft doesn't want up peons to build our own stuff.

 

[slimshady]

How about adding a clip of some sort to the stock rails so it locks into the ends of the cross pin when extended like the stock does when collapsed?

 

[root]

So let me get this straight.

They somehow made the lower 1/2 steel 1/2 aluminum ?
Or at least enough aluminum in the rear to make adding the stock back on a real PITA.

How did they manage that since these lowers are all one milled piece.
That is how my kits look. Just one milled lower with the only breaks being the torch cuts.
I never noticed it "joined" together in any fashion but then I haven't looked at them since I got barrels for them about a year ago and even longer since I mocked them up to make sure they were complete.

 

[TheNewPunisher]

You can see the new aluminum section on the semi model in the pic shown. It was attached mostly to the existing trigger group area with a series of strategically placed pins. A large part of the original frame was replaced with the new aluminum frame, not just the rear section.

 

[root]

Glad to see that pic thanks.

Won't be wasting my loot on that train wreck when I already have kits ready to go.
Should probably grab a few more kits while they are sub 200.
Wish bowman still had them for 89 + shipping complete less barrel.
I grabbed two then should have bought more. shoulda, woulda, coulda.

But then when I asked my buddy how he completed his his response was.

It was a bitch.

 

[fortyfive1911a1]

It’s a long shot, but Ian from Forgotten Weapons did some videos on his that he is SBRing. Maybe worth a shot to shoot him an email to see what his plan is? Hopefully he’ll post a video explaining the plan in detail once it’s finished. I would assume he has some excellent connections and resources to get it up to speed.