beretta M12`

[deaconblue]

I had the opportunity several years ago to shoot a beretta M12. At the time I worked at a gunshop and the gunsmith there was a reserve police officer and was the range master (maybe wrong title) at a local PD and they had an M12 there. This was the first FA weapon that I ever shot. It functioned flawlessly and was easy to control. It was a very cool gun!
I looked on several sites and you usually do not see many of these guns around. The ones that I did see where dealer samples. Did they not import many of these guns in the US?
It seems like this gun did not catch on very much. Some countries used it and I believe that FN made it also. I wonder if the success of the UZI made the M12 to be overlooked. They basically function identically i.e. both utilize a telescoping bolt.
Just wanted to strike up a conversation about this seemingly overlooked gun.

 

[John2]

A Beretta M12 was too my first smg. Years ago. Many years ago, I was in Tuscan, AZ. and found a rental range in the Yellow Pages. I fired the M12, UZI full size, and I forget what else. But I found the M12 a very comfortable shooter. These were the days I had no idea that I, a mere mortal could legally own a machine gun. No idea what transferable, dealer samples were. Since that time, I've never seen one for sale. I have VHS showing them being shot (Babes and Bullets, or something like that), but no idea of their registration type. They may well be all safe queens and one just has to wait for the present owner to dispatch and the Executor to put them on the market.

 

[Vegas SMG]

In my best Homer Simpson voice.... "Ummmm. the Beretta PM12. Ummmm".

I shot one of these a year or so ago after I've had some subgun experience under my belt and I was impressed at the smoothness, controllability, and slow ROF. Many would disagree, but I love the way it looks. From an ergonomic stand point, the magazine is in the wrong place, but for a recreational shooter, it'd make a nice addition to anyone's collection. Transferable examples do exist but don't appear often. The last one I remember seeing for sale was a couple of years ago. I'd guess if one were to be offered for sale today, it'd fetch at least 15K and sale immediately. Just a guess on my part. Neat, neat subguns.

http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/2000/2015.htm

 

[nfafan]

Doubt about any *originals* being in the registry as being fully transferrable. Any else would be pre-86 (read: Dealer reward for paying $500 SOT.) and post-86 "dealer samples".

IIRC, they were scarce outside of Italy even before the GCA of 68 that sealed our borders to transferrable foreign FA's. Supposed only a few - as in maybe 2 - FN Uzi's made it in. And very few GI-bringback AK/AKM-47s.

If any PM12s ARE available as transferrable - they are likely parts kits (which were around) assembled on some registered tube. Amazing what a Sten tube begets...

Supposedly there was rumors of a semi-auto PM12, but to no avail.

Another Italian stallion is the Franchi LF62 SMG - like a knock off of the luscuious Walther MPLs and MPKs. More SOT dealer rewards.

I'd sell a kidney for an MPL.

 

[944turbo]

A Beretta M12 was too my first smg. Years ago. Many years ago, I was in Tuscan, AZ.

I fired that same gun, probably. I think it was around 1989. If I remember, the place was called Marksman or something like that. :twoguns

 

[panaceabeachbum]

I remember seeing a transferable on subguns a while back but based on price I would bet it was a reweld.
those lf62's are neat , ugly but neat

 

[John2]

944Turbo...Marksman sounds like the place. In a shopping mall. Walk in, range on left, counter at far end? I was there before '89. Did you notice my rounds in the overhead baffle? I didn't score many points that day. After firing conventionally, I tried Jimmy Cagney style...and it climbed. Voice over the loudspeaker put a stop to that! My credit card was a mass of melted goo by then anyways.

 

[coronelli]

I'd love to have an M12....I've always thought they were beautiful.

 

[sofltodd]

It's a wonderful gun to shoot and very smooth. It reminds of an an ergonomically designed mini uzi wiith just about as much sex appeal when you are holding it.

However if I remember correctly the gun has a fatal flaw which allows it to become jammed in such a way that it is impossible to recover quickly. If my memory serves me right I think the issues was that it was possible for a spent casing to become lodged in the trigger housing and drop down into the works causing it to become FUBAR

 

[Vegas SMG]

Todd; does our friend still have his? I know you've got photos or videos...

 

[sofltodd]

I know a couple people with them and one of our mutual friends has one still to my knowledge. I'm not sure if I have video of the malfunction around here but I have footage of it shooting suppressed and unsuppressed. It is bad ass with my Gemtech MK9K on it.

I'll point a few people toward this post and see if we can get some more info about the failures. I don't want to misquote or misrepresent the firearm as it is a thing of beauty.

 

[deaconblue]

reference of the effects of the Uzi on the M12

I was bored and went through some books in my library and found the following:

“When Fabrique Nationale acquired a substantial interest in Beretta, production of the Belgian-made Uzi ceased in favor of the Italian Modelo 12, developed by Domenico Salza into a comfortable, well-made and reliable tool. But the spectacular success of the Uzi (and the limited market for submachine-guns) has restricted the FN-Beretta Modelo 12S to a few armies, a handful of police forces, and special unit such as the Italian Nucleo Operativo Centrale di Sicurezza (NOCS). Like the UZI the Mo. 12S makes use of an overhung bolt, which greatly reduces its overall length; unlike the Uzi, at the time of writing no attempts have been made to produce micro-light derivatices.”

Guns of the Elite, Markam, George; Sterling Publishing; 1989; pg 81.

So according to this reference it seems that the Uzi did play role in the slow acceptance for the M12 as a SMG in some nations armies and police forces.

 

[Remo Williams]

There are several Model 12 in the registry as fully transferrable pre 1968 imports. As for the Model12S, It is an updated version of the Model 12 and did not come into being until well after the 1968 cut off date.
Back during the days of the Vollmer board(mid 90's), one guy was selling 2 Beretta Model 12 and 2 Walther MPL's for $4500 each. The sold fast. This was in the mid 90's.

 

[L34A1]

Thanks Todd. I am glad to see a discussion on the PM12s. Being a Beretta fan and using a 92FS for the past 15years, I alway longed for the Pm12s. I finally acquired one a year ago this month. I planned on using the gun in smg matches and started to practice with the Pm12s and learned of its fatal flaw. The fact is the there is nothing that separates the trigger housing from the receiver itself. It happened to me in practice that a shell casing can flip behind the ejector and fall into the trigger pack causing a permanent stoppage. Unlike other guns, most jambs are able to be cleared. It is still a sexy firearm and will continue to keep it safe and sound in my safe. I will shoot it at our matches simply because we allow transition to pistol when the smg goes down, but will probably tend to stick with the L34A1/L2A3 when the chips are on the line.

 

[fatboy]

to pic's i found on my computer:

"bella italia"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carabinieri

 

[po]

The security forces for the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics had a number of Beretta Mod 12's. I think. I do not recall where I heard that.

Can anyone confirm? And does anyone know the legal status of the cache if it ever existed?

BTW, R.L. Wilson's "The World of Beretta" has some excellent photographs of the Model 12. I recommend this coffee table book, as well as "WINCHESTER" by the same author. :surfing

-- po

 

[coronelli]

I believe the security at government buildings in Madrid were carrying them.

 

[Cognard]

Hi guys , i have searched for this thread after getting a NIB FN made m12s today ....i have never heard about a FN made PM12s until today , not even at the net , wikipedia , etc .... hence the search ....

markings are : "submachine gun FN licence beretta , cal 9mm par " and some belgian proof markings on the rear ...

 

[Mayday]

Buy it.

 

[Cognard]

i did .....2.5k ....