I need to practice Lage upper mag changes

mwarnick1

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I’m making a change this year and am going to compete with the Lage upper. The giant Mac can is on for backyard practice and will come off for the comp.

This sure seems to be a great choice for a gamer gun. It just beat out my other choices during my informal testing.

The one gripe I have is how difficult it is to line up the two tabs on drums and mags to lock into the magwell. There doesn’t seem to be a good way to improve the time it takes to change mags other than lots and lots of practice

Anyone have any tips for smoother mag changes?

The length of pull is also a tad long. I’m going to have to try to find a shorter stock
 

A&S Conversions

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Could I have a little more background on where you will be competing? The pictured upper was very popular for subgun matches. It still is in the open division. With a 71 round drum most stages could be completed without a mag change. Most matches have now instituted max of 30 loaded per mag for any division other than open.

What were your other choices of uppers? I would think with your hand in the grip and ROF, the Max-11 would be a better choice. As you mentioned, the mag changes for the Max-31 are very slow. I would also think that with the extra bulk of the Max-31, transitioning from target to target would also be slower. When I tried a Max-31, that was my impression anyway.

Practical Solutions did have a 3D printed magwell adapter for the Max-31 that used standard Z-mags. As I recall there was a flared opening to the bottom of the adapter. That should increase the speed of mag changes with the Max-31.

As far as LOP, there are several things that you could do. If you really like that stock, I would cut it just infront of the screw on the bottom infront of the latch. I also bought the die for the receiver extension (buffer tube), and extended the threads towards the latch. Then cut the threaded end of the receiver extension to match the shortened stock. I would also think that you could shorten the LOP by a half inch by switching the AR stock adapter pictured to the Lage AR stock adapter https://www.max-11.com/611.php which seems to have a shorter thread adapter for the receiver extension to thread into. Lage also has shorter stock options like the #304 with a 7-7/8" LOP. Good luck with your upcoming matches.

Scott
 

Doobis

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I made a cheap version of the Z-MAG magwell insert you can download and print.

Personally I prefer the sten mags converted to fit in the max 31. They have a much wider face and slide right in. The ZMAGS converted to fit in the max 31 are really difficult to use quickly. They with tip to the right and left and get stuck.

Where are you trying to compete? Im on the east coast and I have been looking for a place to shoot full auto in a match setting. Looks like out west in AZ is the place to be.
 

chili17

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ditch the vert grip and practice or waste time and money buying equipment thinking its going to make you better. Nothing beats practice
 
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mwarnick1

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It’s a competition in Alaska over Memorial Day. We don’t have different classes so I can shoot whatever I want.


“With a 71 round drum most stages could be completed without a mag change”

This was my thought also. Especially since pulling singles/doubles on steel is a piece of cake with the Lage. I might end up using coffin mags. While they have less capacity they also allow me to get my non shooting arm in much better position closer to the gun.

If I had better luck with 50rd shockwave mags or Lancaster mags then the magwell or Sten conversion would be a great idea. Unfortunately my shockwave 50s are failing over time and my Lancaster mags have old and tired springs

Thanks for the LOP ideas. I’ll check into them

“with the extra bulk of the Max-31, transitioning from target to target would also be slower. “

I don’t mind the weight but the bulk/length is something I’ve thought about. On some comp guns I’ve added weight to get a better balance between controllability and speed. Once I get the Lage set up as best I can then I’ll do some time trials against my default mp5

I’m not looking to buy a new upper but I can definitely see the appeal of the max-11. The mag through the grip has always been my favorite. I really want to love the M16 CMMG RDB but the reliability issues and very poor accuracy kill that upper for me

I’m not usually a vertical grip guy. I don’t like them. Between the odd (for me) shape of the Lage forend and the odd reach to get around the drum mag, the very grip actually works best for me in this situation

Fun stuff to play with which I think is the whole point of this business 😀
 

Gaujo

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You need drum carriers for speed. The drums are easy to get to fit but mags arent as fast. As mentioned above it's so good some matches changed to block it.
 

mwarnick1

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I’ll soon have one of those adapters on the way. I look forward to trying it. It’ll work with the Suomi modified shockwave mags.

For the drums and coffin mags I’ll just need to practice and then practice some more
 

A&S Conversions

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The two most important things to do in subgun match is, one, don't wait for the steel to fall. Most steel targets, especially being hit with 9mm, will have a half second between when they are hit and when they actually fall. Many inexperienced competitors will aim, shoot, wait for the steel to fall, then aim at the next target. Experienced competitors will, aim, shoot, and go to the next target. If they missed something, they will go back for the miss before leaving that shooting position. Waiting to see the steel fall adds time.

Second, try to plan mag changes while moving and practice your mag changes on the move. If you only used five rounds at the first array, change to a fresh mag while going to the second array. If you need one more round at the second array of targets because you didn't change mags, you will be standing in front of targets with an empty gun. At an Indiana State match, the difference between first and third was three seconds. I consider a five second mag change to be competitive. In that particular match, an extra mag change for the winner would place him fifth. It is important to plan your mag changes. Standing in front of targets, changing your mag will tend to keep you off the podium. There was a thread here talking about subgun competition a couple of years ago. Maybe someone will be able to find it. Good luck with your competition endeavors.

Scott
 

mwarnick1

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It’s a magwell funnel that clips onto the Lage upper and makes it super easy to index/insert Suomi style shockwave mags into the magwell

I’ll get some pics this weekend if no one posts any sooner.
 

MitchWerbellsGhost87

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ditch the vert grip and practice or waste time and money buying equipment thinking its going to make you better. Nothing beats practice
Is that a Finnish JATI smg in your avatar? Just curious, sorry for the off topic post, not trying to derail this thread, it just caught my eye as I was reading your post.
 
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