M11/15 Prototype

[MPA guy]

^^^ LOL

 

[gfunk]

Or the "buttplug" could even be some type of sling QD style mount. That is my contribution!

 

[grezy]

M11a1 receiver mounted to a K and M style bull pup design that would be awesome �� Just saying

 

[grezy]

Making a bull pup design you could move all the internals from the register receiver further back just leaving the trigger in the register receiver might work

 

[grezy]

You could use the existing holes already in the rear of the receiver that use for the wire stock for the trigger rods Just food for thought

 

[grezy]

Then when you submit to the ATF you just send the lower half that attaches to the register receiver and call it a receiver extension that will allow you to put a K and M upper on there that way the part you send can't be called a machine gun it's just a receiver extension it's all about wording and then you can plug any K and M upper on their ,308 556 300 blackout

 

[Esox]

IMHO, I would never shoot a full auto bullpup. My face that close to a potential OOB or kaboom is just not worth it.

 

[IndustrialRescue]

Lage should just sell us a $10 item called the "Buttplug"; a 10 cent rubber plug to fill that unsightly hole in the back of your M11/9 you had to drill for that M11/15 upper.

That's all I can contribute to this endeavor.

Lol

 

[Sid T.]

IMHO, I would never shoot a full auto bullpup. My face that close to a potential OOB or kaboom is just not worth it.

That wouldn't be an issue for me since my face already looks as though it's intercepted a kaboom!
All kidding aside, a kaboom in a bullpup would only be a problem if you're firing a right ejecting upper from the left shoulder.

 

[A&S Conversions]

A couple of observations from a guy that "doesn't have a dog in this fight" (at least yet). Something Gorge at Valkyrie Armament told me about customer supplied parts. He did belt feed conversions to AR-15 guns. He said it was very problematic when customers supplied parts. Guys would send him guns with out of spec parts that wouldn't run reliably when he received him. He did the conversion and then would have to work on the guns to get them to run. He said it was very frustrating to spend all this extra time fixing junk guns.

To be honest I have no idea what Richard would do as far as stripped upper or not. As far as I'm concerned, if it were me, I would not sell a stripped upper. I'd think most guys would use quality parts and put it together properly. Of course there would be a couple of guys that would use junk parts and their upper wouldn't run. Then they would be very vocal about how they thought the product that was junk because it wouldn't run. Personally I wouldn't want to put the reputation of my product in the hands of customers. I would only want to produce a basic quality product that would run great. If the customer wants to customize beyond that, it would be their choice. Richard is know for very high quality products. How he would deal with this, I don't know.

Maybe down the road something could be built for the M11 guys. I just don't see that unless some kind of adapter for the M11/NINE unit could be made. It is my understanding it is simply a numbers game. I'm sure someone can correct me on the numbers but it is my understanding there are over 13,000 M11/NINE RRs, around 4,000 M10 RRs and only around 1,000 M11 RRs. This is a business venture. It seems to me Richard has built products but needs to go where the numbers are. That is why there is so much more for the M11/NINE RRs. So unless that adapter idea works, each M11 owner would need to order 10 uppers to really get the attention you want, IMHO.

This is just one guys opinion. I wish Mike and Richard all the luck with their rifle caliber upper project.

Scott

 

[MPA guy]

True that some people could mess up a wet dream. Some have probably screwed up a working completed upper too if you want to be honest about it.

I believe the forum members here would be the primary market group for this product and are well above entry level arfcommers and are more than willing and capable of knowing what they're doing and buying.

And for those that don't, most here offer troubleshooting advice and help freely and openly. There are "help me" threads started here all the time.

I personally don't think he'd be taking a risk by offering the proprietary parts as a kit and would sell more of them that way.

 

[Marty in UT]

My unsolicited advice would be to work with a single parts kit supplier and supply all the AR parts kit to be used. That way, you know the parts going into the completed upper. When I was working on the Khimera project, I had established contacts within Palmetto State Armory (PSA) to supply me all the standard AR parts that would be required to complete the uppers, which would've been everything but the stripped AR upper, charging handle, and the lower parts kit (except the mag catch parts). (The Khimera was designed to use virtually everything from a standard AR-15 parts kit.) Eventually, I developed a working relationship with one of the main AR parts suppliers to PSA. One less middleman and his markups to deal with--and then you know exactly the parts and tolerances you are going to have to deal with. And you know exactly who to go to should something go wrong with the parts. Also, you make a very modest markup on the AR parts that your customers are going to have to purchase anyway--on top of the profit you make for the proprietary parts. And customers receive something that works "out of the box." Everyone wins.

 

[Gaujo]

Look. Do the 11/9, and as we've seen, Richard makes the others when he feels bored or charitable 8)

 

[SecondAmend]

.. I'm sure someone can correct me on the numbers but it is my understanding there are over 13,000 M11/NINE RRs, around 4,000 M10 RRs and only around 1,000 M11 RRs...
Scott

SWD made 17,000 M11/9s and 3,800 M11A1s. There's about 18-20K of other manufacturer's including individual Form 1 made M10 and M11s for a total of 38-40K M10 and M11 Ingrams in the registry. (The M16 pattern family comes in at over 50k transferables.) Per discussions on Subguns.com.

 

[IndustrialRescue]

My unsolicited advice would be to work with a single parts kit supplier and supply all the AR parts kit to be used. That way, you know the parts going into the completed upper. When I was working on the Khimera project, I had established contacts within Palmetto State Armory (PSA) to supply me all the standard AR parts that would be required to complete the uppers, which would've been everything but the stripped AR upper, charging handle, and the lower parts kit (except the mag catch parts). (The Khimera was designed to use virtually everything from a standard AR-15 parts kit.) Eventually, I developed a working relationship with one of the main AR parts suppliers to PSA. One less middleman and his markups to deal with--and then you know exactly the parts and tolerances you are going to have to deal with. And you know exactly who to go to should something go wrong with the parts. Also, you make a very modest markup on the AR parts that your customers are going to have to purchase anyway--on top of the profit you make for the proprietary parts. And customers receive something that works "out of the box." Everyone wins.

PLEASE GOD NO. No PSA. No no no no no.

 

[root]

My idea of stripped may or may not be others idea of stripped.
My idea of a stripped upper for something like this is like those Colt ar15's they are pumping out with no furniture.

IE: no sights no hand guards.
I would want it to be functional. Not just a upper shell stripped of all parts minus the bolt and upper.
That would just be silly.

Like someone else said Lage is already the ALA CART of uppers so I'm guessing he probably new what I meant.
Just like his sight is now.
Pick the upper then the sights barrel & cal. that kinda stuff.

That would allow the buyer to customize the upper before it even ships then down the road make/add more changes.

I sure the hell did not mean a completely stripped down upper with just the proprietary parts stuck in a box and shipped.
Again that's just silly.

Rich

PS: I'm pretty sure Richard has a good handle on how to run things LOL

 

[A&S Conversions]

I believe the forum members here would be the primary market group for this product and are well above entry level arfcommers and are more than willing and capable of knowing what they're doing and buying.

I would agree for that for the first 50-100 uppers. After that I'd think most of the uppers would be sold to guys that are priced out of the M16 market. What is there out there for a transferable 5.56X45 at the lower end of the price scale? Ruger AC556 and FN FNC at around $10,000. I here Ruger no longer supports the AC556 (I don't know that for a fact) and replacement parts for the FNC are mostly made of unubtainium. Both are great "one trick ponies". But a MAC style RR with a Lage upper or CF(W) bolt with a AR based would be a little more than the Ruger or FNC, but can also be a match winning subgun.

Versatility is the major reason why the HK conversion devices and the M16 family (DIAS, LL, and RR) are on the top of the transferable 5.56X45 possibilities. Both of those options can become a match winning subgun. With a viable rifle upper based on the AR that is for the MAC style of RR, I think that will draw collectors from outside the typical MAC style RR buyer's pool. Just as when Richard's slow fire upper and TASK slow fire conversions brought many new buyers to the MAC style RR because those RRs could be made into a real match winning subgun than a bullet hose. So will a viable rifle caliber conversion bring more buyers to this platform.

SWD made 17,000 M11/9s and 3,800 M11A1s. There's about 18-20K of other manufacturer's including individual Form 1 made M10 and M11s for a total of 38-40K M10 and M11 Ingrams in the registry. (The M16 pattern family comes in at over 50k transferables.) Per discussions on Subguns.com.

Thank you for the update. So how many total for M11/NINE, M10, and M11(A1)s?

Scott

 

[plodder]

I like the way we are all offering unsolicited design and marketing advice to perhaps the most successful, quality conscientious and customer service oriented entrepreneur of after market firearm components in the world. I'm pretty sure that if and when the concept is approved by BATFE and Lage brings a finished rifle caliber product to market, it will be well thought out, practical and provide value for the money.

If he tells me it requires a hole in the back plate of my M11/9 lower, I will only ask where & what size?

 

[FAL]

I like the way we are all offering unsolicited design and marketing advice to perhaps the most successful, quality conscientious and customer service oriented entrepreneur of after market firearm components in the world. I'm pretty sure that if and when the concept is approved by BATFE and Lage brings a finished rifle caliber product to market, it will be well thought out, practical and provide value for the money.

If he tells me it requires a hole in the back plate of my M11/9 lower, I will only ask where & what size?

Well said. We have people who love the Mac platform as much as us and have as much interest in bringing this to production as anyone else. Let's give them some time to work their magic.

 

[theduke]

Hole or not...its all good.
Lets hope the Beta and Xproducts drums will fit

If the magwell is similar to a standard ar lower...some other acc. will also fit.

A interchangeable magwell..ak/ar/308.(ala colt 901).would be sweet :twoguns

when does the list start.?