Possible Illegal SBR?

[hkg3k]

Was browsing GB and came across this RPB OB "pistol" for sale.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=485026743

Recalling the thread(s) on the old school MAC carbines, it appears this "pistol" has both the rear sight -and- carbine stock mount fixed to the receiver.

Thoughts?

 

[JohnFreeman]

No stock so no foul!

 

[hkg3k]

No stock so no foul!

I wasn't really looking at it from a "current configuration" pov, but was looking at it from a "originally registered as a carbine - now it has a short bbl on it." My understanding is it is ok to add a carbine/rifle kit to a pistol, but you can't go from rifle to pistol. Am I incorrect in that understanding?

 

[AmishEskimoNinja]

That is my understanding as well, but I suspect turning a rifle into a pistol isn't nearly as big of a deal as turning a rifle into an SBR.

 

[Vegas SMG]

It's not the first time this M-10 has been listed on GunChocker. If you zoom in you'll see it has a stock release mech installed in the lower. I'm not passing judgement, just stating an observation.

 

[JohnFreeman]

Ah, I got you... yep, you're right. Did RPB sell open bolt carbines I wonder?

 

[LawBob]

It's not the first time this M-10 has been listed on GunChocker. If you zoom in you'll see it has a stock release mech installed in the lower I'm not passing judgement, just stating an observation.

judgment

 

[Vegas SMG]

judgment

I'm delighted you're back on the job! Had I typed that response using my Windows based desktop and run it through Word, it would have been caught and corrected. My iPhone didn't catch it. Cheers Bob!
Judgement versus judgment

In American English, judgement is generally considered a misspelling of judgment for all uses of the word, notwithstanding individual preferences. In British popular usage, judgment was traditionally the preferred form, but judgement has gained ground over the last couple of centuries and is now nearly as common as judgment.

When it comes to legal contexts, English reference sources say varying things. Most seem to agree that judgment is preferred in legal contexts even in British English, and some say that American and British English differ in their strict legal meanings of judgment. Bryan Garner, in his Modern American Usage, says judgment in American English refers to “the final decisive act of a court in defining the rights of the parties,” whereas, he writes, the word in British English refers to a judicial opinion. We find nothing to contradict this, though there are many English reference sources that do not mention a legal/nonlegal distinction or an American/British distinction.

Thread has now officially been hijacked!

 

[pjeski]

That is my understanding as well, but I suspect turning a rifle into a pistol isn't nearly as big of a deal as turning a rifle into an SBR.

It doesn't matter if it currently has a stock. Making a "pistol" out of a rifle is still making an SBR:
"(8) The term ''short-barreled rifle'' means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches."

 

[pjeski]

Thank GOD you found that criminal selling an overpriced semi-auto brick.
Call 911.
The world needs more 1934 federal law minutia watchdogs busting people for the wrong type of toilet paper.
"It's for the kids."

Maybe the benefit of this post is to alert potential buyers that there could be problems owning this gun.

 

[X-Ray Zulu]

Maybe the benefit of this post is to alert potential buyers that there could be problems owning this gun.

Possibly Unregistered Title II Firearm...

 

[medphys]

Was browsing GB and came across this RPB OB "pistol" for sale.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=485026743

Recalling the thread(s) on the old school MAC carbines, it appears this "pistol" has both the rear sight -and- carbine stock mount fixed to the receiver.

Thoughts?

How do you know it was a "carbine?" If a quick disconnect stock mount is illegal then so is an Uzi barrel nut. You use either of them to quickly make a SBR.

 

[hkg3k]

How do you know it was a "carbine?" If a quick disconnect stock mount is illegal then so is an Uzi barrel nut. You use either of them to quickly make a SBR.

I'm not aware of any manufacturers of the "MAC family" that sold pistols which had installed or were configured to accept collapsible butt stock hardware. There are a couple STRONG indicators this gun left RPB as a carbine......and the configuration it was in when it left the factory is what's at issue IMO. This gun has the butt stock hardware installed -and- it has the rear carbine sight attached to the receiver where the normal integrated sheet metal peep would be.

Could this gun have left RPB in the exact configuration as pictured in the ad? Could this gun have left RPB in a "normal" pistol configuration and someone in this gun's past milled/cut the rear of the gun to add the collapsible butt stock -and- cut off the original peep and welded on a carbine rear sight? Sure......but both would be way outside of known norms. I guess anything's possible......which is why I started the thread formulated as a question to facilitate discussion and not a call to action to hammer the seller or alert Johnny Law.

 

[pjeski]

It's not about whether or not the stock mount is legal, it's about what configuration the receiver was first built as.

Edit: OP beat me to it.

 

[JohnFreeman]

Don't worry, be happy!

 

[medphys]

It's not about whether or not the stock mount is legal, it's about what configuration the receiver was first built as.

Edit: OP beat me to it.

Ahhh. I see where you're coming from. If it was a carbine from the factory, then the owner made a pistol from a rifle and that's a no-no.

 

[root]

The stock for the semi auto pistol uses the same lock below the rear sight, but the method of attachment to the lower receiver is different. The hole where the stock release button would normally be on the SMG is also present on the SAP. To mount the stock via this hole, a locking bar and push button are added to the stock When these are removed then the SAP stock can also be used on the SMG. However the SAP lacks the stock mounting slots which are located in the rear of the SMG. so the factory wire stock can not be attached to it
without major alterations.

Rich

 

[Junkcollector]

BUT - if one had a pistol MAC and bought a 16" upper for his pistol then machined the lower to accept the wire stock to make a temporary rifle, I see no reason the stock mount hardware would be illegal.

 

[pjeski]

No one is saying the stock mount hardware is illegal.

 

[arch stanton]

if your going to start a pissing contest do it elsewhere or this will be locked