Questions about brass

[Sayeret Shaldag]

Guys,

What makes certain casings better than others and why? I guess the answer to this question will get different answers depending on what you use the rounds for and whether you reload or not, but I am curious.

Is it that the cartridge brass used in better brass has a higher Zinc content or something? I hear a lot about how Lapua brass is the best and I have read in several places that IMI brass is even better. Why? What makes these casings so good? Are the case walls thicker?

I am also curious as to whether pistol brass is annealed. I was thinking that annealing was only necessary with rifle rounds that have a tapered neck, but am not sure.

 

[MrM4]

The 1st thing that comes to mind when talking about good brass is the "web" in the casing. Some are thicker then others i.e. stronger / more reloads.

 

[jarhead jim]

Lapua brass is annealed on the case mouth I believe. Some brands of cases are thicker which helps them live longer. A lot of your military rounds are. I'd say there is some substance to what the cases are made of too cause I can remember reading about some brands that seem to split a lot earlier than others.

I don't believe cases such as .45 auto and 9mm are annealed. I haven't read about it anywhere anyways. I don't believe they develop the pressures to need to.

Jim

 

[Sayeret Shaldag]

Thanks guys. What is the "web" in the casing? I have been reloading for about 8 years on and off, but am no JJ. I would just like to learn a lot more about the actual process and components that go into making my rounds.

This weekend I will try to weigh different kinds of pistol brass (with my new Dillon scale) and report back. I once ran into a website about precision shooting and this guy weighed every single IMI 308 case prior to reloading and then would sort them according to weight. That seems a bit crazy, but I am no Delta sniper.

Do you all think brass has much to do with the accuracy of a load?

 

[SubGunFan]

.........................

Do you all think brass has much to do with the accuracy of a load?

OH YEAH....... Maybe not as much for the make of brass, but how you prepare and reload the case makes a BIG difference. As you know, rifle cases require much more prep work than handgun cases.

I have often wondered why military brass is annealed. True, annealing softens (less brittle) the brass, but the military is not worried about reloading their brass. Unless the annealing is just to heat up the case right before the bullet sealant is applied and the bullet seated (for a better seal). If that is how it is done........

MAN, I would trade my wife and my dog for a detailed trip through Lake City's ammo plant. I have searched the Internet for LC info, but find few pictures......

.

 

[jarhead jim]

Your different makes of brass will hold different amounts of powder. After trimming them all to the same length, I put 26 grains of 4895 in my 223 cases and I had cases nearly full to almost 1/4" from the top. This is all due to the thicker cases having less volume.

If your buddy with the 308 was really picky he'd also neck turn the case mouth for uniformity on the pressure of the neck around the bullet. Like SGF mentioned, rifle bullets take a lot more prep than say a .45 auto.

Jim

 

[Noah Zark]

What makes one brand of brass better than another is UNIFORMITY, period.

Uniformity in dimensions, wall thickness, case weight, and flash hole diameter.

Those companies with the better reputations for brass have the most consistently uniform case properties.

Due to the manufacturing process (deep draw stamping), ALL brass is annealed at some point, sometimes more than once. Commerical brass is tumble-polished to remove the annealing discoloration so it is not evident to the eye that annealing took place.

Noah

 

[SubGunFan]

Thanks Noah. I knew cases were stamped from brass plugs, but did not know the process required annealing. That does make perfect since because the stamping is a multi-step process that does work the brass quite a bit, thus making it brittle. Annealing "re-softens" the brass.

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[MuzzleFlash]

What makes one brand of brass better than another is UNIFORMITY, period.

Uniformity in dimensions, wall thickness, case weight, and flash hole diameter.

Those companies with the better reputations for brass have the most consistently uniform case properties.

Due to the manufacturing process (deep draw stamping), ALL brass is annealed at some point, sometimes more than once. Commerical brass is tumble-polished to remove the annealing discoloration so it is not evident to the eye that annealing took place.

Noah

I've had brass that is uniformly bad.

Here's a good, reputable read on the stresses that firing produces on brass.
http://www.hornady.com/ballistics/internal.php

 

[Sayeret Shaldag]

Great discussion. Noah is right all cartridge brass is annealed at some point and maybe more than once. I hope the attached image is not too small I had to shrink it.

 

[Noah Zark]

I've had brass that is uniformly bad.

Me too. It was made by AMERC.

Noah

 

[Sayeret Shaldag]

Noah funny you mention that. In all my time reloading the only brass that has evr given me problems is AMERC .45 ACP. What was you issue with this brass? One got stuck in the chamber of my buddy's Colt 1911 and another got stuck in the chamber of my Springfield. We had to take his gun home and luckily mine managed to eject the AMERC round after racking the slide with some force. We had to go through thousands of rounds but we found each and every AMERC reload and disassembled them. This started me on chamber checking everything for a final layer of QC. I hope the addition of some new Lee Factory Crimp Dies will eliminate the tedious process of checking each and every round.

 

[chili17]

the AMERC 45 acp mouths are to thick. The bullets are also sized .448. When you load a .451-.452 bullet in them it makes the mouth to wide and causes it to stick in the chambers. Trust me when I say stay away from anything made by AMERC.

 

[cvasqu03]

I've actually successfully reloaded AMERC 45 brass with no problem. I've found that I actually get better ammo by reloading it than AMERC provides from the factory. I use LEE dies and I double size them. I clean all cases before resizing and then polish them again afterward. I find the AMERC cases even look better after I've reloaded them than they did when new. I DO use the LEE factory crimp dies as a final step on loaded ammo and I use a midway gauge to make sure all cases are within spec.

No problems here, but since I'm not using a progressive setup right now, I'm putting a lot of time and care into each case which may be the difference. The double sizing is juse a habit I picked up when I started reloading and for some reason just stuck to. I'll probably have to stop when I get a progressive. I'll obviously have to alter my cleaning/polishing phase since the progressive will be loading them right after resizing so I won't have that intermediate step.

 

[chili17]

if I lived in FL i would have allready walked into AMERC and kicked everyone there in the nuts!

 

[SubGunFan]

........................ Trust me when I say stay away from anything made by AMERC.

+1000


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[SubGunFan]

if I lived in FL i would have allready walked into AMERC and kicked everyone there in the nuts!

I am still looking for that "wise ass" that designed Winchester 45acp brass using small pistol primers (stamped "NT" on the head). That SOB is another NUT KICK victim........

.

 

[cvasqu03]

I am still looking for that "wise ass" that designed Winchester 45acp brass using small pistol primers (stamped "NT" on the head). That SOB is another NUT KICK victim........

.

Was that AMERC also? I'd never heard of this one. Do you have pictures, that would certainly be something to see.

 

[MunsonMan]

Federal NT brass

Was that AMERC also? I'd never heard of this one. Do you have pictures, that would certainly be something to see.

I believe this is what you're referring to. Don't know where I picked up this brass, but I've never tried to reload it. Someone told me that it is from Federal "NO-TOX" ammo intended for indoor ranges. That is a standard Federal .45 case on the right.

Ed

 

[MunsonMan]

Federal NT brass

Here is another pic with the spent primers still seated. As you can see, the primer pockets were sleeved to accept a small primer. I'm guessing this special primer was non-mercuric in construction -- hence the NT headstamp. If anyone has further info on this No-Tox ammo or its' brass case, please share it! Thanks...

Ed

P.S. Note the large flash-holes in the NT primer pockets. Any theories as to why?