Bowers Vers 9s - disappointing performance

[sniperdoc]

My picture above shows the custom Curtis Tactical can I had made and it's baffles are threaded and numbered. The orientation is critical for optimal performance, hence why they are numbered.

Here are a couple pics of the threaded baffles.

It is not a cheap can as you can see a lot of material has to be removed to make these baffles which again are made from 17-4 stainless steel.

Shot it yesterday side by side an Omega 9K and clearly quieter than that and I honestly can tell the difference between it and my MK9K which I also shot again yesterday for someone that wanted to hear them side by side and he agreed as well.

Thanks for pics. I've seen baffles numbered, but not threaded.

 

[Fishman]

I've never seen threaded baffles. Can you please post a pic?

I have a custom integral 450 bushmaster can from him that uses threaded K baffles. I really like them. Make sure to put anti seize on the threads before assembly.

(Like these)

 

[Gaffshot]

I bought this Bowers Versa 9S about two years ago. Before doing so I asked here on U-Talk what was the best 9mm subgun can. The Bowers was highly recommended by many as the best.

Whatever.

 

[rentprop1]

Before doing so I asked here on U-Talk what was the best 9mm subgun can. The Bowers was highly recommended

Whatever.

Welcome to forum advice..... much of it comes from people with no idea or experiance, and just repeat names they see on gun forums #eyeroll

 

[Vegas SMG]

My experience is with the larger CAC can and latest .45 baffle stack and I’m sure the additional volume helps. I’m happy with it.

 

[Kramer]

Welcome to forum advice..... much of it comes from people with no idea or experience, and just repeat names they see on gun forums #eyeroll

Yep, the arfcom effect. It happens on all boards.

 

[Jmacken37]

I love the threaded baffles as they eliminate the need for an inner tube in this case and makes it even lighter than a standard MK9K.

Hey Amphibian, I think what Colt Collector is thinking of is the "click to assemble" baffle stack used in many of the current pistol caliber cans (I think SWR came up with the concept) as it also eliminates the need for an inner tube and don't have the added failure point of threading...

 

[Jmacken37]

The Bowers can is not the quietest but it does have large volume, excellent CS backup, and is rugged with a ton of attachment options. Those are the features that make it well regarded.

I always caution forum advice regarding suppressors because the owners ranting about them have a significant financial, time, and emotional investment in their choice which can skew their opinions...

 

[amphibian]

Hey Amphibian, I think what Colt Collector is thinking of is the "click to assemble" baffle stack used in many of the current pistol caliber cans (I think SWR came up with the concept) as it also eliminates the need for an inner tube and don't have the added failure point of threading...

Yep...I have some SWR cans with the click baffles but in regards to my MK9K hybrid clone I would rather have the baffles threaded as it eliminates the the need for an inner tube.

 

[sniperdoc]

The Bowers can is not the quietest but it does have large volume, excellent CS backup, and is rugged with a ton of attachment options. Those are the features that make it well regarded.

I always caution forum advice regarding suppressors because the owners ranting about them have a significant financial, time, and emotional investment in their choice which can skew their opinions...

Also, most people who own cans don't own every single model in every caliber from every single manufacturer. (Unless he's a major dealer with massive inventory, I'd say no one does)

 

[Ge-mini-gun]

As Vegas mentioned...my experience as well is with the older CAC model, although in 9mm. Not mine, but I've shot the crap out of it on an M11/9 with both factory and Lage upper...it's HUGE but I thought did a great job of suppression, compared to other suppressors there at the time.

 

[Jmacken37]

Yep...I have some SWR cans with the click baffles but in regards to my MK9K hybrid clone I would rather have the baffles threaded as it eliminates the the need for an inner tube.

Hi Amphibian, are you using the SWR click baffles, an inner tube, and then another outer tube? I must be misunderstanding. The thing I like about the SWR type baffles is that they make a sort of redundant tube that is protective to the outer tube and allows for easy removal of the stack. No more pushing gummed up stacks out of the tube with some big long screw contraption!

 

[amphibian]

Hi Amphibian, are you using the SWR click baffles, an inner tube, and then another outer tube? I must be misunderstanding. The thing I like about the SWR type baffles is that they make a sort of redundant tube that is protective to the outer tube and allows for easy removal of the stack. No more pushing gummed up stacks out of the tube with some big long screw contraption!

I was just saying that I have some SWR cans that use that design....like the Spectre2 that you posted and the Octane9. I agree love the design in that it keeps the crud away from the tube.

However, in regards to my Curtis Tactical 'hybrid MK9K clone' doing a click type baffle setup would only work if you resorted to using another tube (inner tube)....So the inner tube would then be threaded to accept the end caps. This would then add weight. Again this is inner/outer tube arrangement is how the Gemtech MK9K and GSL Phoenix are made. Using threaded baffles, my Curtis can does away with the need for an inner tube since the baffles are threaded together.
So the outer tube is held in compression while the inner tube (or baffles in the case of the Curtis can) are held in compression.

I know the other option would to be just thread the outer tube combined with a click style baffle design. However, as I posted in other threads, I already have several MK9K's and wanted to maintain backward mount compatibility so that was out for me.

I was also told that having the inner core in tension and outer core in compression makes for a stronger setup as well as ensuring alignment of the inner core.

 

[Marcus99]

I understand where the OP is coming from and to a certain extent agree, but overall have to disagree. I own a VERS 9S with the aluminum baffle stack in addition to an Octane 9 HD2, Tirant 9 and Mystic (earlier non-x version.) The later three are all quieter than the VERS 9S overall but it isn't noticeably so EXCEPT the first round pop wherein the VERS 9S is quite a bit louder. Once all four warm up and fill with gas the differences are margin. This is especially true on an SMG like my S&W 76 where the ejection port and suppressor are further in front of the shooter as opposed to the ejection port being more so adjacent to the shooter as it is on the Max11.

I typically run my VERS 9S on my Max11 and my Octane 9 on my S&W 76 - the Max11 is a gassier SMG so the VERS 9S helps mitigate that whereas conversely the S&W 76 isn't a very gassy SMG to begin with (tighter fit and sits further in front of the shooter) so the Octane 9 is fine, plus it makes for a sleeker more uniform package. Simply put though, everything is going to be louder on the Max11 and everything is going to be quieter on the S&W 76. The 76 is truly quiet and one of the reasons why I bought that gun.

Having said that, all things being equal, the Octane 9 is a quieter baffle stack compared to the VERS 9S. Many years ago myself and uzitalk member JOHN_E did a wide comparison of 9mm fullauto rated suppressors across various hosts. If I recall correctly we used three different M11/9's with different uppers and bolts (this was before the Max11 mk2) and an S&W 76 as well as an Octane 9, Tirant 9, Mystic, CAC9, CAC380, VERS 9S and original Sionics with fresh wipes. The Sionics was the quietest, the rest were marginal but the VERS 9S had by far the loudest first round pop. Note however that at that time the VERS 9S was brand new and had almost no carbon buildup on the baffles. We had threads on these comparisons so years back that should still be on uzitalk.

We all know videos are never perfect representations of how suppressors sound, especially given the numerous variables at play and differences perceived by each shooters ear. But I think my videos below are overall pretty accurate for how I think each suppressor sounds across the board (VERS 9S and Octane 9.)

 

[root]

MARCUS99

Having said that, all things being equal, the Octane 9 is a quieter baffle stack compared to the VERS 9S. Many years ago myself and uzitalk member JOHN_E did a wide comparison of 9mm fullauto rated suppressors across various hosts. If I recall correctly we used three different M11/9's with different uppers and bolts (this was before the Max11 mk2) and an S&W 76 as well as an Octane 9, Tirant 9, Mystic, CAC9, CAC380, VERS 9S and original Sionics with fresh wipes. The Sionics was the quietest, the rest were marginal but the VERS 9S had by far the loudest first round pop. Note however that at that time the VERS 9S was brand new and had almost no carbon buildup on the baffles. We had threads on these comparisons so years back that should still be on uzitalk.

There you have it someone who has shot a bunch side by side on different hosts.

I have the 9 HD and the Sionics 45 cans and am very please with both. More now with the Sionics now that I finally on my 5th attempt over 10 years got the can apart to clean and saw how little there was in it after 5K + rounds. I stopped counting @ that point and it's probably north of 10K in reality.

Yes SWR ( Henry) invented the click baffle design. My Original Spectre does not have it and there is no way after 1K rounds you can get it apart without the tool.

The Sionics?
Many tools and some thinking outside the box throw in a pucker factor that it might/will strip with the ft. lbs needed to get it apart from the OEM factory assembly.

Bought a Octane 45 HD last week and expect very good things form it.

Am I a SWR fan buoy?
sure I am. three of my cans are from them and I run all my cans hard. SWR lives up to the reputation.

Not here to bash the Bowers stuff no opinion as I've never owned or shot one, I will say one thing everyone agrees on.
It's got volume so why not buy one and re-core it? Would make sense after all to get the registered tube and put a state of the art baffle system in it.

Now that everyone has wasted their time with my opinion I do have a question....

Is the Bowers can take apart?
Or does it need a jail break from someone like bendensquirt?

A sealed can is a 100% deal breaker for me.
But for the price it's worth it to have it re-cored while in NFA jail if it is take apart for cleaning.


Rich

ETA: typos

 

[Fishman]

Why buy a can and recore it when you can just buy a custom can from the start?

 

[ScottinTexas]

I'm going to see if Curtis Tactical can rethread (from 5/8X11 to 1/2X28) and recore my 1980's M11A1 RPB .380 can. As it sits it has no practical value to me so......

Normally I'm 110% against altering original guns etc. but the time and tax effects have an influence here.

 

[root]

Was more of a general question about re-coring the can since so many say to get the sionics cans re-cored by bowers was wondering if his cans can be re-cored.

Rich

 

[TheColtCollector]

Was more of a general question about re-coring the can since so many say to get the sionics cans re-cored by bowers was wondering if his cans can be re-cored.

Rich

Yes they are user serviceable. I’ll start a new thread once mine is recored

 

[Kramer]

Why buy a can and re-core it when you can just buy a quality can with a good core from the start?

FIFY.