Reloading Subsonic 9mm

[bwsmg]

I use to shoot 147gr HP Zeros before the price became so ridiculous. When they first hit the market Zero was a good deal. They where design for self-defense performance. I liked them because the HP had closed base and the same load ran well in all my suppressed smgs: S&W76, M16/9mm, MP5k, Mini Uzi, and Standard Uzi. It’s uncommon for HP to run reliable in smg, but Zero was an exception in my experience.

If you are planning for target and steel plate match shooting MG is the way to go. MG doesn’t offer much as a defensive round, but plate shooting, old junk cars, and penetration they out perform all others.

As for PD can’t help because I’ve never used them, but based on other’s post some really like them. Maybe get a smaller amount of both for experimentation? Once you decide what works best for your needs, stock up…!

Open lead base or copper plated projectiles will have an effect on your suppressor in the long run. I do know if a great amount of build-up accumulates the can will become very heavy. Once this happens there’s nothing you can do about. Believe it or not the can will keep its low tone. The mass will absorb sound.

 

[az paul]

I've been loading 147gr sub-sonic today using a Dillon 550B...CCI Small Pistol Primers, 4gr. of Unique and X-treme bullets. That combo runs fine in the Uzi's and S&W76 using the Mossad II can.

 

[fred9x21]

I've been working on a 124gr. load with HS6. My LEE manual showed 6gr as subsonic, but in my M11 with a Lage upper they ran around 1150fps. I tried 5.4gr. and got them down to 1025fps. Now I need to load 20 or 30 and see how they cycle. I will report back when I get time to try them out.

 

[MuzzleFlash]

One thing to consider as you select powders with higher weights for suppressed shooting - it will produce more gas volume. Of course, what matters is how much, how fast (pressure), and how efficient (clean burn). In a perfect world, you'd want a low residue powder that burns to completion before the bullet exits into the expansion chamber of the suppressor. That way you're not sand blasting your blast baffle with particulate nitric crud that could accelerate fouling of the suppressor and become acidic with high humidity or water based ablatives.

Modern suppressors rely on a certain amount of pressure to operate efficiently so it's not necessarily true that the lowest workable powder weight you can find (least gas volume, lowest pressure) will have the best sound signature. There's also gun-to-gun timing to consider when searching for a good all-purpose subsonic load. For instance, how fast does your load and suppressor combo breach the chamber and at what pressure? I've had loads that sound great in my MP5K but chamber bark in the Uzi and suppressed Sterling.

You may want to shoot your candidate loads point blank and unsuppressed at sheets of white poster paper placed on a good backer. Inefficient powders will have noticeably higher GSR spray and pitting. If your loads produce flame footballs without the suppressor, you're unlikely to have good results or long can life. Remember, a suppressor does its job by capturing, cooling and briefly retaining gas. The idea is to find that sweet spot of temperature and pressure that gives great muzzle suppression, doesn't bark the chamber and provides consistent accuracy.

I've personally been happy with the above Bullseye and VV 320 recipes but as always, YMMV. Bullseye is very clean and burns fast. On roller locked guns, you may have to experiment to find the right load (or change locking pieces). For instance, I bought the HK recommended #28 suppressor locking piece for my PDW and it worked great on all loads except the Berrys 147 gr + 3.8 Bullseye. It was almost useless with the can off. I put back the original locking piece and it works great. Go figure.

 

[StooperZero]

Been using Ranier 147gr JHP with 3.5 of BUllseye. JUst hear the bolt cycle.


147gr Cast with 3.5 of bullseye Is quiet BUT you can hear the bullet whizzing. sounds like a low pitch ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

 

[fathergoat]

precision delta 147gn and 4gn of salut (aka russian unique) for me

 

[fred9x21]

Finaly got around to testing the 124gr. loads. 124gr Montana Gold bullet with 5.4gr of HS6 runs around 1050fps and will cycle my Max-11. Now just have to wait on the form 4 so I can see how quiet they are with the Wraith can.

 

[dbailey]

I reloaded 4000 rounds of subsonic 9mm in the past 2 months.
I used Frontier plated 147 grain bullets w/ 4gr of Unique.

Running around -30db in my YHM Wraith on my Max-11 and about the same on my MK-760.

I have used as little as 3.7 grains of Unique and it will cycle but I prefer a
little extra relaibility in cycling.

I have run this in a full auto Glock w/ Neilson and no problems cycling.

Unique is a little dirty but at the price its hard to beat.

Oh I use a Dillion 550B as well and I mounted it on a rolling Chasis (w/ casters) Rolls right back into the closet after a long Saturday night watching
war movies and reloading. I can do about 500-600 per hour easily.

I read a post where a guy said to ditch unique on the dillon as it throws high charges if you let it set awhile. I have noticed mine does that on 223, but since I mostly load 25 grns and 27 is max I dont care. However, when your loading 4 and 4.3 is max thats kinda scary. I like unique, use it in all my pistol loads.

 

[TangoFoxtrot]

Here is some chrono data from the last two weeks:

UZI with 10.5" barrel:
147gr GDHP 3.3gr Titegroup = 864
147gr GDHP 4.8gr PowerPistol = 1020

147gr Rem HP 3.3gr Titegroup = 910
147gr Rem HP 4.5gr PowerPistol =962
147gr Rem HP 4.8gr PowerPistol = 980


I'm afraid to go over 3.3 grains of Titegroup since it's the maximum load in the Speer book, I've read horror stories of how going over 3.3 of Titegroup can cause pressure spikes, and I shoot 9mm pistols that might not be able to handle it.

More chrono data:

UZI 16" barrel:
147gr GDHP 3.3gr Titegroup = 929
147gr Rem 4.8gr PowerPistol = 1081

Olympic Arms 9mm 16' Barrel:
147gr GDHP 3.3gr Titegroup = 941

Glock 17
147gr GDHP 3.3gr Titegroup = 882
147gr Remington HP 3.3gr Titegroup = 884
147gr GDHP 4.8gr PowerPistol = 949

CZ-75:
147gr GDHP 3.3gr Titegroup = 861

 

[cultist]

Berrys 147 gr and 3.0 gr of Clays Universal. Runs great

Do you mean Hogdon Universal or Hogdon Clays????

I'm not familiar with a "Clays Universal"

 

[UZI SBR AWC]

I'm afraid to go over 3.3 grains of Titegroup since it's the maximum load in the Speer book, I've read horror stories of how going over 3.3 of Titegroup can cause pressure spikes, and I shoot 9mm pistols that might not be able to handle it.

Been running 3.5gr with 147 FMJ @ 1.150 and 1025+/- from 7.5" pipe since 2007 as my everyday load.

-----------------------------------------------------

Do you mean Hogdon Universal or Hogdon Clays????

I'm not familiar with a "Clays Universal"

Likely meant to say "Universal Clays", as it is a commonly used for 9x19 and 40 S&W loads..

We have straight Clays, Universal Clays, and International Clays... very easy to have problems if powder not called out correctly.

 

[cultist]

We have straight Clays, Universal Clays, and International Clays... very easy to have problems if powder not called out correctly.

I got a bottle just labelled "Hodgon Clays" looks like this...

I guess that's "straight clays" and not recommended for my 9mm subsonic loads?

 

[amphibian]

Been running 3.5gr with 147 FMJ @ 1.150 and 1025+/- from 7.5" pipe since 2007 as my everyday load.

+1, I've been running 3.7 of Titegroup (I know max is 3.6) for longer than that. I run it everything I have that is 9mm. Glocks, Beretta's, HK's, UZI's (Full size, Mini, Micro all FA), Colt 9mm M16s, etc...
Actually use it for .45 and 40 as well.

 

[MAC907]

I have been loading 147gr. FMJ/ENC bullets and had success with 3.6gr of Tite Group with an OAL of 1.165. I see the OAL according to Hodgdon is 1.169, but the Hornady manual says 1.165. What OAL are you other guys using with Tite Group? Also I'm using CCI #500 primers and have no problems with FTF even on cold days of -20F, anyone prefer other primers?

 

[MAC907]

Also, I saw mention earlier in this thread about 9mm loads with 158gr. bullets. Does anyone have any data and know where to buy these bullets. My M10 loves the Fiocchi facory 158gr. loads. When I pulled a bullet from the Fiocchi the cartridge it was .355" diameter which leads me to believe that it was specifically made for 9mm and not just a .38 bullet that was crammed in there.

 

[amphibian]

I have been loading 147gr. FMJ/ENC bullets and had success with 3.6gr of Tite Group with an OAL of 1.165. I see the OAL according to Hodgdon is 1.169, but the Hornady manual says 1.165. What OAL are you other guys using with Tite Group? Also I'm using CCI #500 primers and have no problems with FTF even on cold days of -20F, anyone prefer other primers?

I use anywhere around 1.169. If it varies some, I don't have any problems. I just stay away from going too short. If it is too short, my Colt 9mm setup has feeding problems.
I use any primers I get my hands on. They all work for me.

 

[amphibian]

Also, I saw mention earlier in this thread about 9mm loads with 158gr. bullets. Does anyone have any data and know where to buy these bullets. My M10 loves the Fiocchi facory 158gr. loads. When I pulled a bullet from the Fiocchi the cartridge it was .355" diameter which leads me to believe that it was specifically made for 9mm and not just a .38 bullet that was crammed in there.

See this thread regarding 158GR reloading: http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52145

 

[MAC907]

Thanks for the info amphibian. It definately seems like 147's are the way to go unless I happen to come across an amazing deal on some 158's. As far as the COL of my 147gr. loads goes I guess I'm seating the bullets right at 1.165, I wasn't sure if I should seat the bullet a little deeper to 1.160 or less to get more velocity/higher pressure. I haven't been able to chrony my 3.6 grain Tite Group loads yet, but I know that with 3.5 grains I wasn't able to get velocity reading above the 890's. I'm sure that the cold winter temps here are part of the reason for the low velocity readings (my test guns are a Beretta M9 and an Ingram M10/9), so far my warmest shooting day with these loads was -10F.

 

[bwsmg]

The last place to sell Israeli 158gr 9mm projectiles was Natchez about 8 years ago.

Magnum primers will allow for a more constant burn rate for extreme cold weather shooting, but it also will increase over-all projectile speed. When using magnum primers is similar to adding 1/10th to 2/10th to the powder charge, so a slower burn rate powder may be required to stay at or above 3.6 powder charge, which is the lowest load anyone should use to maintain safe powder levels to air ratio.

If you were to continue to use Tite Group with magnum primers I would recommend shortening the OAL no less than 1.150 to limit air space ratio for a powder charge under 3.6

This load has worked well for me if you’re able to find 158gr 9mm projectiles:
3.6 Win231 and 3.6 VV340

 

[tyromeo55]

I'm thinking about getting come 158gr 38 special projo's and pushing them through a lee .356 sizing die. Anybody try this?