Tenko Preorder Discount

[A&S Conversions]

This is something that that was mentioned in the "Tenko Fund Raising Idea " thread. Several have asked about this possibility and it was suggested that I start a separate thread. So for those that wish to take a risk and help move this project forward:

If you are willing to help me bring this project to market, if you will front me $500. I will offer a discount of $1,000.00 off the price of a new Tenko 10-16 adapter. I can't guarantee when this product can be brought to market.

We are about to resubmit. I need to square up debt for the end of the year. These units will be shipped directly from me, once approved. This project has been a huge financial burden for me and my family. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Please send me an email through a.and.s.conversions@gmail.com account.

Scott
Manager A&S Conversions L.L.C.

 

[skiboatsp]

Email sent

 

[Kkontx]

You don't have a price listed for what this would cost. $1k off of a unit price of $1,500? $10,000?

Sorry but if you can't come up with 10k on your own that doesn't sit well with me asking for hand outs. What happens on the next road bump when you don't have funds available and to all the people who donated?

If you thought the project would have a positive outcome after the submission, you would have found a way to come up with 10k through your own means...

 

[root]

Kkontx said:

You don't have a price listed for what this would cost. $1k off of a unit price of $1,500? $10,000?

Sorry but if you can't come up with 10k on your own that doesn't sit well with me asking for hand outs. What happens on the next road bump when you don't have funds available and to all the people who donated?

If you thought the project would have a positive outcome after the submission, you would have found a way to come up with 10k through your own means...

I know you're new here and all but geeze dude.
This guy has his heart & soul poured into this project and with the items he has for sale in the WTS forum he is trying to fund this his self.

Unfortunatly he's selling M11/9 stuff and I am poor with only a M10.

Happy thanksgiving to you too.
Bet yer a blast @ fund raisers.

 

[A&S Conversions]

Certainly, it is a fair question. The short answer is that we are closing in on a quarter of a million dollars invested in the project, all self funded. We have just run out of discretionary funding. As you can imagine, my wife has lobbied very hard for me to walk away from the project. Whether I am spending cash or cashing in on firearm investments, is still diminished net worth. But we have been working on selling some assets.

We developed an adapter that will give an M10 registered receiver, the basic functionality of a M16, using off the shelf AR-15/M16 upper receivers. I am not an engineer, I am not computer savvy, and I have no machinist abilities or equipment. So we pay professionals to do those functions, which increases overhead.

To be honest, I don't know what the retail price will be. Five years ago our retail price was going to be $2,995. Since overall inflation has risen 22.3% during the last five years. How has inflation effected metals and machining prices? I don't know. We also have had additional R&D costs. Until we have an approved design, we are not going to solicit pricing. So I can't give an accurate price, but I will need to take those factors into account.

If you are interested, search Tenko 10-16 adapter. I hope that gives you some background as to what we are developing. My continued thanks to the community for the support.

Scott
Manager A&S Conversions L.L.C.

 

[MontanaRenegade86]

Best of luck to you, Sir.

 

[TheStig]

The product seems neat, and the ATF may be bastards, but your wife is right. It is time to walk away.

 

[A&S Conversions]

I am 64, with around half my net worth tied up in the Tenko adapter. You certainly are entitled to your opinion, but I think that I have the issue with the fire control figured out with the open bolt version. So I will test it this week and see if I have it. If I do, I will ship both both to the ATF. Thank you for your prospective.

Scott

 

[skoda]

 

[Homemadeammo42]

I know you're new here and all but geeze dude.
This guy has his heart & soul poured into this project and with the items he has for sale in the WTS forum he is trying to fund this his self.

Unfortunatly he's selling M11/9 stuff and I am poor with only a M10.

Happy thanksgiving to you too.
Bet yer a blast @ fund raisers.

The Tenko 10-16 is for the Mac 10. If it was for the M11, it would be the Tenko 11-16

 

[theduke]

Covid era posters are Debbie Downers.

Too late too give up with whats invested already.
I get it..I'm your age.
With the investment you have already , a couple few more grand to make it come true is logical. Hopefully this IS the last hurdle and you can proceed.

I'd say more but not needed for those of us that have followed from day one. Yes I'm an 11 owner but this is a stepping stone that may cross over to the rest of us.

 

[root]

Homemadeammo42 I am refering to the CFW M-11/9 bolts he has listed in the FS forum.

And a free plug for some sear ready H&K one off builds he is parting with since I'm here.

As far as I'm concerned Scott is doing it the best & most honest way possible.
Selling personal assets and offering a discount to preorder buyers.

 

[Kkontx]

I dont think it's being a Debbie downer, I think it's being realistic and maybe a dose of reality. Sometimes you need to cut ties with a losing investment. Having half of your net worth wrapped up in this doesn't need to turn into 3/4 of your net worth?

There is no price for this, but estimated 3.5k with past price and inflation? Why would someone purchase this over the Lage 10/15? Aesthetically, in my eyes it looks atrocious. The grip looks angled down, looks like the weight is front heavy and awkward to operate the charging handle and clunky.

This is just my opinion, and you have a few loyal supporters here clearly. Will those supporters or any preorders (without payment) recoup the 250k+ investment? The time investment also adds up as well. I'd really run through that before devoting more time, money, and effort into this.

I am not trying to offend. But those who seem offended by giving a differing opinion, are you all a buyer of this product? Will you actually buy this? Or are you giving advice to someone to continue spending their life savings on a whim?

 

[Deerhurst]

At $3-3.5k I'm in (as long as the ol lady agrees I can spend that). I already have a pile of uppers in different calibers which makes things way easier than swapping barrels on the Max15.

By all means, if you think you can do it better, please do so. Until then, I'm interested in the Tenko.

If he doesn't, I'll probably end up making my own once I run out of other projects.

 

[A&S Conversions]

If the Tenko is not for you, no problem. There were 250 on the list that want this without knowing how it works. This is an adapter not a ground up design. We designed the Tenko adapter for function not so much for esthetics.

Why have the M16/DIAS and HK sears and frames have out preformed most other machinegun market values? Because they can easily be converted to other guns/calibers. They can be more than a "one trick pony".

The Lage upper is a great product. But if someone wants to change calibers with the push of two pins, you'll need to spend close to $30,000 for a M16. So I think that the there will be a market for the Tenko. It won't be just for the M10. Once we get the M10 version off the ground, then we can continue on the M11/NINE version.

If pushing two pins to change to a fresh upper/caliber change for a fraction the market value of the M16 has no value to you, then the Tenko adapter is not for you. I think that there is a market for the Tenko. Maybe it is more money wasted. I believe in the product. There will come a point to give up. I am not there yet.

Scott

 

[Offmarksman]

Hang in there Scott. I wouldn’t consider someone who joined a year and a half ago, with no stars an expert on the Mac market. Merry Christmas Buddy, and may 2024 be Your best year yet!!!!

 

[Kkontx]

By no means an expert but it's not just the looks of it. The ergonomics of this don't look very practical and seems very cumbersome.

Test the market again with a preorder and a refundable deposit. 250 preorders (with no commitment) if sold at 3k a pop would be 750k and clearly cover the investment but it's easy to sign up for a list and put nothing on the line. Similar to deerhurst's post saying he wants it with the out that it's up to his wife, it's not a commitment. But that's where my skepticism comes in from my original post. If you believe these would sell for that and you have guaranteed buyers (not a click of the mouse preorder), why ask for hand outs for 10k to get you to the finish line? Selling bolts admittedly above market price to other members in the community? Just take the hit and sell the bolts for market value or slightly below to move them quick and get your 10k quicker to push you to the finish. When the product hits the market you will recoup that...

 

[Deerhurst]

Finances change.

If the Tenko were available today I have money in hand and a direct line to Scott.

The wife thing will be soon (I have the ring and a plan) then it's not just my money. I have to be mindful of what she needs, wants and what we can or cannot afford.

He is asking for ideas. He is also making a commitment to those who are willing to invest. The AFT has screwed him in very expensive ways. If you are unaware of the back story I believe uzitalk has a search function.

It changes the look and such. If you don't like it you don't have to buy it. Simple as that. Nobody is making you do anything regarding the Tenko. Even a Max15 is more cumbersome than an M16. Any Mac upper will be. A Max31 is very awkward for me with a drum. I have TRex arms. I have to run a shorter stock to get around things to use a Max31 or Max15.

It's not above market if people pay. That's the great thing about capitalism. If a buyer is willing to pay the item is worth that price to the buyer. That's why machine gun prices are so inflated.

Either way, I want one and disregard your opinion. As I said before, if you can make a better mousetrap I would be thrilled to see it and a buyer. If not, Tenko is your best bet. More competition is always better for the customer!

 

[Offmarksman]

We get it Kkont, You don’t like the Tenko.

 

[Grant435]

I dont think it's being a Debbie downer, I think it's being realistic and maybe a dose of reality. Sometimes you need to cut ties with a losing investment. Having half of your net worth wrapped up in this doesn't need to turn into 3/4 of your net worth?

There is no price for this, but estimated 3.5k with past price and inflation? Why would someone purchase this over the Lage 10/15? Aesthetically, in my eyes it looks atrocious. The grip looks angled down, looks like the weight is front heavy and awkward to operate the charging handle and clunky.

This is just my opinion, and you have a few loyal supporters here clearly. Will those supporters or any preorders (without payment) recoup the 250k+ investment? The time investment also adds up as well. I'd really run through that before devoting more time, money, and effort into this.

I am not trying to offend. But those who seem offended by giving a differing opinion, are you all a buyer of this product? Will you actually buy this? Or are you giving advice to someone to continue spending their life savings on a whim?

I read this post as very respectful and spot on, he is just stating the other side of things. I know some of you know Scott personally or truly want to buy the tenko, I think most others will selfishly root Scott off a financial cliff not caring at all about him or even buying his product, they just want to see it come to market just to know it’s an option. People are saying kkonyx doesn’t know the mac market or can’t build this better himself, I don’t see how that matters. He CLEARLY understands basic business. The only way I would move forward with bringing tenko to market is if it’s seriously just a couple more thousand dollars , no more and it now turns into trying to recoup as much as possible and cut losses. I don’t see how this can turn a profit when it’s all said and done. When lage has a preorder list, doesn’t only half follow through? So cut your list In half and now factor in that most buyers already bought the rifle caliber upper from lage. I don’t know Scott personally but I genuinely do wish him AND his family all the happiness, health and riches. I’m never the negative guy on any forums but man this situation does not look good. I actually really did want to see this adapter available because a fightlite upper would be so bad ass on it but not if it’s going to financially ruin his life or possibly his relationship with his wife